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Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:37 am    Post subject: General questions
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Since the game is down I thought I'd use the time to try and get to know my profession a little better.

On magic/psionics: Being one of the few professions with spell research/research/occult lore as focus skills, I was expecting a little more proficiency. A level one mage can learn 2 spells, yet with 6 points in the above skills (and 4 in spell casting/psionic ability) I'm still not able to learn any spells/psionics. I understand that being a focus skill only makes it a little easier to train than for other non-mages, but umm.. am I missing something? How much is it going to take? ::grunts::

On parry: Focus skill, yet we're banned from using weapons. Am I parrying with my hands/arms, and wouldn't that hurt? Do I need any kind of weapon training to be able to parry effectively, or is based solely on parry? Do I just need to hold a sword or something.. and wouldn't wielding a weapon, even for defensive purposes, break our code?

On meditations/sigils: Fifth level before we get any? Isn't that a bit high for a profession described as "powerful warriors"? That part aside.. what meditations/sigils are available to us, and when? Doesn't seem to be any information on the subject Smile

When choosing this profession I was anticipating magic/psionics/meditations/sigils to compensate for the lack of armor and weapons, but having achieved level 2 without even being able to learn a simple armor aura I'm not feeling too powerful. I know level 2 really isn't anything to crow about, but I was expecting *something*. Well, at least I'm not a putrid dork anymore Mr. Green

I've still got a long road ahead, but I have faith that there's a plan and I'll eventually grow into truly awesome force. I'm really not complaining, just trying to understand the big picture. I'm sure I'll come up with some more questions, in the meantime I look forward to your feedback.

Thanks,

~Dag
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:22 am    Post subject:
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<skips over the Magic/Psionic question>

Yes, with Parry you're supposed to be able to deflect melee attacks with your hands (and feet, I'd assume). But, to be honest, I never noticed any benefit from the skill.. and with my +6 racial bonus to evasion, I think I'm just going to stick with that and pour what little I have in Parry into something else when we migrate to the new engine. Unless, of course, they reveal that higher ranks of Parry will allow for a very effective stance.. or will actually show a benefit (since you can end up damaging your hands, which is quite bad really).

I asked Hunter about why we receive our first ability at 5th (and no, it's not a meditation, because he said the first one didn't come until 10th), and he said that most of the other professions get stuff at that level. I think it's fair, if only because it shows some level of dedication to have to wait 150,000 experience points.. which equates into about 250 hours of experience absorption. <shrug>

I might be underestimating the effectiveness of Guardians that choose other races, thanks to my increased evasion due to my being Human. But I do know that they aren't going to purposely go out and make the rest of you suck. At least I hope not. Confused
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Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:00 pm    Post subject:
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I was told it takes 8 research points for non-mages to learn a spell/psionc ability.. looking it over that's an average of a little over 1 spell every 3 levels. Really not bad, considering we can get one of each at that rate. The new question is why are so many psionic abilites unavailabe when supposedly only the Drawing path should be excluded?

Quote:
Yes, with Parry you're supposed to be able to deflect melee attacks with your hands (and feet, I'd assume). But, to be honest, I never noticed any benefit from the skill.. and with my +6 racial bonus to evasion, I think I'm just going to stick with that and pour what little I have in Parry into something else when we migrate to the new engine.


On parry, I played around with it a bit (unarmed and with a knife) and didn't notice any real benefit, in fact I seemed to get hit more often than dodging. I didn't see any damage parrying eosheai/asapi with my hands, but I always failed against chiths.. maybe a weapon would hurt. While my evasion is still too low to see any benefit, we do get +10% so I'll probably focus on that and pour the parry into something else.

Quote:
I asked Hunter about why we receive our first ability at 5th (and no, it's not a meditation, because he said the first one didn't come until 10th), and he said that most of the other professions get stuff at that level. I think it's fair, if only because it shows some level of dedication to have to wait 150,000 experience points.. which equates into about 250 hours of experience absorption.


Reasonable explanation and it sounds pretty fair to me too. But the question remains.. what the heck are they? Mr. Green

Quote:
I might be underestimating the effectiveness of Guardians that choose other races, thanks to my increased evasion due to my being Human. But I do know that they aren't going to purposely go out and make the rest of you suck.


Well, I can't speak for the other races, but Jaddan certainly don't suck Very Happy

Agility may be a hassle, but the extreme bonus to vitality training, racial health/stamina bonus and damage resistances means I can take a lot of punishment (of course, the lack of agility means I usually have to, heh.) I don't have a frame of reference to be able to tell if strength is increasing the unarmed damage, but I assume it's there (correct me if I'm wrong.) Combining that with our unarmed combat bonus makes us quite an offensive force as well. 30 str/vit at level 2 ain't nothing to sneeze at.

~Dag, strong and hearty as an ox, and about as graceful.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:21 pm    Post subject:
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I did a test awhile back to see if Strength gave any noticable increase to unarmed damage; got a Jaddan up to about 25 Strength and an extra coordination, I think. However, that was back before Trevor corrected the damage modifiers on everything that wasn't blunt, so I was still hitting the same as my human with quite a bit less strength. I'll go back and do the test again later tonight after I level. Smile

--William
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HR-Hunter



Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 564
Location: [Deep Wilderness Shrine, Haelrahv]

 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:57 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
The new question is why are so many psionic abilites unavailabe when supposedly only the Drawing path should be excluded?


Actually the materialization path is Psi only too, and alot of abilities aren't done being made yet (this is a testing phase after all)

Quote:
On parry


You can parry unarmed, though once combat weapon damage is live you do risk hand injuries. Eventually (maybe not until we move to the new engine) you'll be able to have a secondary defense to fall back on in case your primary defense doesn't stop the attack.

Quote:
what the heck are they?


Sigils unfortunatly won't be available until the new engine though they'll be similer to spells in that everyone can learn some and some are Guardian only, you'll get a stance at 5th, and your first meditation (stone) at 10th, which will give you resistance to physical attacks.
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Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject:
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I just looked into the strength thing with my little mage, also specializing in unarmed combat, slightly less agility and barely more coordination (just in case they're a factor) but only 4 strength.. didn't notice any difference at all in the power of the hits Crying or Very sad

Maybe there's a logic to it that I can't see, but it doesn't seem right to me. I mean, you'd think a stronger person is gonna hit harder with fists or a blade/blunt/polearm type of weapon, especially when there's that much of a disparity. Starting to wonder if I shouldn't have just piled all those points into vitality or a little agility.

~Dag
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:05 pm    Post subject:
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- Parry needs some work, in fact combat does in general, but during this test phase, many details are not in place simply due to the nature of the test. Nonetheless, I'm going to be making some changes here and there. Parry is intended to be easier to pull off than evasion, but that also depends on your training (stats and skills alike). Right now parry is no easier or harder than evasion, but as some point it will be easier. The downside is that not all attacks can be parried and weapons will eventually take clash damage (and your body may too for unarmed parries).

- Strength does factor considerably into damage for unarmed, but any tests before the damage changes would be invalid due to the number of bugs in the system at that time.

- As mentioned, a lot of psi/spells aren't done in general, yet. Originally only Mages got Summoning and only Psionics got Drawing. That changed so that only Mages get Time & Space and Summoning and only Psionics get Materialization and Drawing. Anyone can train Elemental or Alteration spells and anyone can train Perception and Psychic psionics.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:07 pm    Post subject:
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It's hard to see because you don't get specific damage numbers, but trust me, Strength does factor in a lot. And, encumbrance is also an important combat factor and obviously more strength means less encumbrance. Like any of the stats, Strength has many benefits and I wouldn't overlook it. But I also wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket, as you'll need Agility, Coordination, and Vitality too for combat alone, and the other stats for other reasons.
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Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:07 pm    Post subject:
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Thanks guys, that sure fills in some gaps. I know there's a lot of stuff unfinished, but being a test phase, especially me being so new, it's hard to tell the difference between what's not done and intentional limitations. I'm really looking forward to seeing things grow and picking up new abilities and such Smile

As far as stats go I'm definitely not overlooking anything, but when there's a choice between spending 16 stat points on 1 agility or 16 str/vit, I'm gonna go with the str/vit <g>. As those get more and more expensive I'll work on putting more points into other stuff Smile

As far as parry/evasion, I'm glad to know that there's some decent plans for it, and it sounds wise to keep it in my arsenal. Thanks for the info.

Anyone care to elaborate a little on the stances?

~Dag
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HR-Hunter



Joined: 06 Sep 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:01 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Anyone care to elaborate a little on the stances?


Stances could be concidered martial arts styles. While not "superior" to the default self trained style, because they all balance out... the bonuses/penalties, stat/skill, etc. are weighted differently so that a certian style might be better for you, though it might not be for someone else. Right now the stances are pretty rough, no unique messaging or special moves for that style, though in the new engine we hope to expand it alot more.
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