SpellSongs

[Josie]

Is there anyone out there that can tell me exactly what skill is needed to study a spellsong? I have bought every single one and cant learn any of them Although I love being a performer, it just seems like our guild seems to not really have anything to "do" per say. I have a pretty high singing and dancing skill, yet i still sing off key. The instruments arent working unless with a spellsong...that i cant learn. Though Im great at creating my own songs and dances...I dont learn experience from them. Anyway, Ill get off my soap box now. But if you could let me know just what i need to train to get my spellsongs to work id be grovelin at your feet for life!!

The always beautiful Bella

[HR-Trevor]

Yep. You need spell research and the skill for whatever type of performance it is (dancing for dances, rhythm for drums and stuff, etc.)
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[truth]

Although I am new, I am sort of concerned about spellsongs. I just have to wonder whether it is appropriate to require a performer to learn like 4-5 different instrument skills to learn all the spellsongs, plus spellcasting and spell research. Are they really worth investing all those trainings?
It seems a bit odd since i dont think it's necessary to invest so many skill points for magic or psionics or anything.

[HR-Trevor]

Hmm. Well, you do have a valid point, but then spellsongs are sort of icing on the cake. You don't really have to have them, or all of them. In terms of "power", Performers are in pretty good shape. Mostly these various instrument skills exist for sake of providing lots of options for RP and flair. Even still, you do have a valid point and I'll discuss it with Mickey, the Performer Guru, to get his thoughts.

However on a similar topic, we've thought about breaking some of the other non-performance skills down more which would mean more skills one must train to master a full range of activity. It's always possible we may increase how many skills points one receives too, but they aren't too rare as is, just valuable.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[truth]

Well, I think I understand your perspective on the matter. I don't really know anything about the spellsongs since I don't have any yet. That is really my frustration, that there don't seem to be any non-rhythm songspells available anywhere I saw in Llanfair.

Anyway, I was thinking that what you could do, instead of either (a) requiring a performer to learn 5 different instruments to use all songspells or (b) splitting other stuff up into more specialized skills, is (c).

(c) Right now you have these various types of instrument skills, but only certain (I assume like 5) songspells can be used with each instrument. All the instruments are really just different ways of making music though, and it seems a little too detailed to have them all split up like that... Sort of like having Punching and Kicking, they are different, but you use them for the same type of goal.

So here's the suggestion. You don't need to get rid of any of the instrument skills or anything. Add a new skill, "Music Theory" or something, and make that essentially the "Spell Research" of songspells.
Then, what you can do, is open up all the songspells to all the instruments. Now whatever instrument (or instruments) you chose act like your "Spell Casting" for songspells. Songspells played with the "right" instrument that they are designed for could get some kind of bonus, so that your instrument choice has an effect on your songspells, but doesn't absolutely lock you out from ones designed for other instruments.

[Brenton]

Just because I have nothing better to do, and I think performers are so neat (trying to learn spellsongs even though I'm a medic), I think thats a really good idea if I dosay so myself...but then again I thought part of the bonus was that since they had spell research as one of their things that they were also better than your average joe at regular magic to....

[HR-Trevor]

Thanks for the idea, we'll consider it.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[truth]

Welcome.

Also, I dunno if someone saw my post or what but the music stores got in a whole slew of songspells today, can't wait until I am skilled enough to use them!

[Brokyn]

The only bad thing I see with your suggestion, truth, is when you open up Dancing and Singing spellsongs to be used with instruments and vice versa. I just don't see how you can, for example, play a flute and get the same effect as you would if you did a little dance.. or sing a note or two instead of pluck a few strings.

Of course, you did suggest that there should be varying bonuses depending on what instrument (including dancing and singing) you performed the spellsong with. That pretty much covers it, I suppose, though I hope -- and this is if the idea gets implemented -- there's some logical thinking behind said bonuses/penalties.

If I were to dance for a spellsong designed for a wind instrument, I certainly wouldn't expect it to get anywhere near a tremendous bonus. However, if I danced for a spellsong designed for a rhythm instrument, I would expect a reasonable sized bonus. In the former example, the two instrument skills are, generally, on opposite sides of the music spectrum. In the latter, however, rhythm is fairly close to dancing.. or so I've made myself believe over the years.

^--- Did that make any sense at all?

--William
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Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points

[Brenton]

Perhaps just interchangeable instruments then <shrug>. I suppose you would have to ask Trevor whether the magic comes from playing the right notes, or the rhythm of the song.

[Brokyn]

Magic from the right notes? No more Zelda for you.

--William
_________________



Haelrahv Wiki!
++Brown Nosing Points

[truth]

William I understand what you're saying completely. I was actually thinking about that kind of stuff, but I didn't want to clutter up the suggestion with details.

The way I see it, Rhythm - Dance are linked, and Vocal - Wind. String is sort of neutral, maybe favoring Vocal - Wind, but I like symmetry.

So something like:
Spellsong-type w/ Method-of-Performance

Rhythm w/ Rhythm 25% bonus
Rhythm w/ Dance 10% bonus
Rhythm w/ Other, no change

Dance w/ Dance 25% bonus
Dance w/ Rhythm 10% bonus
Dance w/ Other, no change

Wind w/ Wind 25% bonus
Wind w/ Voice 10% bonus
Wind w/ Other, no change

Voice w/ Voice 25% bonus
Voice w/ Wind 10% bonus
Voice w/ Other, no change

String w/ String 30% bonus
String w/ Other, no change


I think something like that would be ok. The devil's in the details for this type of thing, because if it's not executed right, it could possibly be too powerful of a bonus or too great of a penalty to be of any real use. I don't think it'd be hard to maintain balance though as long as you keep a grain of salt handy and don't start handing out 50% bonus / 50% penalty or something like that which might be substantiated by thinking about it in RP terms but is too hefty in mechanics terms.

In general, I'm not particularly in love with having all instruments broken up in separate skills like they are, because in terms of game mechanics, I don't see different instruments really being any different. Sure, they're played differently, but I think that's looking at it from a musician's sort of standpoint, 'cause in the game the difference in playing isn't really important, it's mostly (if not entirely sans-spellsongs) cosmetic.

In DragonRealms the Bard's guild can get away with having enchantes that are simply unplayable on other instruments because Bards basically have to train all instruments anyway, so it's not a problem. I was never really happy with the way the skills were in DR, but Bards were the only class instruments did anything for, so it didn't matter much.

There aren't any reqs like that for Performers (and I wouldn't want there to be anyway, I don't particularly see my character as a musician, per se, and especially not a virtuoso who's good at all types of instruments). Its something I am concerned about though because spellsongs I think are sort of significant, and I don't want to be missing out on the class' special features too much because of that.

Adding music theory and allowing a spellsongs to be used by other instrument types is a good compromise in my eyes because I can access my class' special features without needing to pump 5 skills, just two like a psion or mage or something. I honestly would prefer just entirely reorganizing the skill structure for music (I'm not sure how, though), but that seems like a dramatic change compared to adding one overall music proficiency type skill and fiddling with spellsongs a bit.

[Josie]

Im just curious if there is a reason why i dont learn experience from performing my spellsongs? I have eight learned but when i perform them,and learned experience from studying but when i perform them i get no expierence.

~Bella
_________________
Neifl Cacambo - "Anyone have change for a tampon?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>whack trevor
You forcefully swing your fluffy pillow at Trevor Rage and hit him on the rear sending feathers flying everywhere!
Your swing knocked Trevor Rage down!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Josie]

I asked this IG tanight but wanted to put it here so that others can see it too. Is there anyway we can get a list of reqs for each spellsong? I would love to know which one I will be able to do next instead of standing in my vault studying every one of em till i find one that i can do

Just something that will tell me how much skill i need to learn AND skill i need to play cuz i found out i can learn a spellsong but not be able to use it.

Also never got an answer on why i only learn experience from studying my spellsongs and not from actually performing them.


~Bella
_________________
Neifl Cacambo - "Anyone have change for a tampon?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>whack trevor
You forcefully swing your fluffy pillow at Trevor Rage and hit him on the rear sending feathers flying everywhere!
Your swing knocked Trevor Rage down!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~