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Hangback?
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Denavae
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 289
Location: [Jareya, Hidden Cove]

 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:00 am    Post subject: Hangback?
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Okay, so after getting a few tips from people as well as scouring the boards for as much information I could find concerning Hangback, I've come to the conclusion that it relies on Athletics among other things.

But, since I retrained to experiment with it, I seem to be doing WORSE then what I was prior to training Athletics. Mind, I did test on Asai Fighters, because I could be assured only one attacking at a time, but they all just blew past my hangback with the occasional one being caught once at pilum. Hangback is my one real life saver since Vae doesn't generally use his psionics (for RP reasons, mostly) and if he got into a pissing contest with anything close to his level, he'd be killed in a flash.

So what effects hangback? I've heard almost by unanimous consent that Athletics helps. It would make sense if Intimidation helped as well as agility. With my little bit of experimentation, I seemed to do better with intimidation then without, but I'm not sure if that was just luck or not.

Since I like suggesting stuff with my gripe-posts, I think hangback could do with a serious revamp. Mainly, I would like to see it rely on intimidation, strength/agility (under different circumstances), as well as athletics. The way I see it, if you're using a large weapon (i.e a scythe) you attempt to keep the critter at range by A) moving back a step or two as it advances or B) keeping your weapon between yourself and the critter. The reason I suggest intimidation as a deciding factor is because well ... if you're facing a daunting, intimidating foe, would you really want to rush into combat with it? It would be an instinctual hesitation that would probably give enough leeway for the foe to keep you at bay or at least make your foe search for a more tactical advantage.

Something I'd like to see for hangback would be a setting: Evade or Block. Of course, if you have a very agile character who's quick on the feet, chances are you could keep pace with an advancing creature. I see this working well for the marksmanship people out there who want to stay as far away as possible.
Or, you could choose to block an advancing critters path with sheer strength and a big weapon. Perhaps a bit less effective then the evasion, but I could see it giving an "attack of opportunity" on certain occasions that does little more then throw the critter off balance with a slight chance of knockdown/stun (An effect similar to Gust of Wind for comparison).

Have a base skill for both (whatever it may be) for success, with added skills helping in each scenario. Evasion, tactics, coordination and agility for the hangback evade and Strength, weapon skills, weapon-type in hand, intimidation for Hangback block.

Also, I'd like to see better messaging for each, for example:

Hangback evade
Code:
 As an Asai fighter advances upon you, you take a few quick steps back to keep it at pilum range.

You stumble slightly as an Asai fighter advances upon you, giving it enough time to advance to pole range.


Hangback block (using my scythe for suggestion)
Code:
With a deft twist of your macabre scythe with a long curving blade, you send an Asai fighter scurrying out of harms way and successfully keeping it at pilum range.

As an Asai fighter advances on you, you jab the end of your macabre scythe with a long curving blade into his chest keeping him at pilum and sending him sprawling!

An Asai fighter easily brushes aside your attempts to block his advance, and makes his way to pole range.


Thinking back, since an attack of opportunity might be a bit uneven, I could also see the hangback evasion have an added bonus of getting back to that range without need of retreating.

Code:
You take several quick steps back, thwarting an Asai fighter's advance, and taking you back into pilum range


Something like that.

Anyways, that's all I can think of for now.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject:
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I'm not going to address anything re: suggestions or bugs, because Mickey's taken on the mantle of combat updates, but the skill that affects hangback, engagement in most cases, and fighting multiple opponents is tactics. I will also tell you that intellect a factor when it comes to hangback.
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Denavae
Lookit the flowers!


Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 289
Location: [Jareya, Hidden Cove]

 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:25 pm    Post subject:
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As I increase in levels, I've been noticing a serious flaw with hangback. Now, I'm not sure what exactly effects the opponents chance to break through, but I would imagine agility has a play in it. All the critters I've been experimenting on, have inferior agility to Vae. So I'm also guessing tactics plays a role in it, too, but I can't tell how that stacks.

Any ideas or help?
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Life is grand. Then you become a surfer with a keen interest in thrilling acts of life-threatening stupidity and realize that the only real life, is the one full of fun times.

BoonDock Saints wrote:
When I raise my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold on judgment, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who haze me. Oh, Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
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soundless
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject:
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IIRC (sadly only those crazy GMs know the exacts!), tactics and athletics are the skills and intelligence and agility are the stats that influence the scores for advance/hangback/retreat/run/flee
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dragonseyes



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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject:
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If Hangback is active. Retreating doesn't work right. It keeps saying you retreat to Melee range and quit retreating. Dunno if that's a bug or not.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject:
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dragonseyes wrote:
If Hangback is active. Retreating doesn't work right. It keeps saying you retreat to Melee range and quit retreating. Dunno if that's a bug or not.


i think if you're unable to retreat from your current situation, you sorta, uh, give up. i know if i try retreating and a kucho advances and hits melee, i give up. BUT if i stun it then try to retreat since it can't keep up due to stunnage i get away.
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With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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dragonseyes



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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
dragonseyes wrote:
If Hangback is active. Retreating doesn't work right. It keeps saying you retreat to Melee range and quit retreating. Dunno if that's a bug or not.


i think if you're unable to retreat from your current situation, you sorta, uh, give up. i know if i try retreating and a kucho advances and hits melee, i give up. BUT if i stun it then try to retreat since it can't keep up due to stunnage i get away.


That's what I thought, and it made sense. Then someone told me how to turn hangback off, and I no longer had the problem. Sorry for not mentioning that. So it's definitely something to do with hangback.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject:
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yeah i think if something breaks past your hangback range you give up trying to hangback, too, instead of trying to get back to that range.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
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dragonseyes



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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject:
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Agreed. The real issue is that I put in retreat, and a moment later, I get the message "You reach melee range. You stop retreating." But if I put in Hangback stop, I don't have that problem.
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Denavae
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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Location: [Jareya, Hidden Cove]

 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject:
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I don't think I've ever had that problem. I always have hangback set to pilum, never turn it off, and when something comes in too close, gets to melee and stops advancing, I retreat, usually back to pilum where I stop. However, if the critter continues to advance, then you have the chance of retreating further, or it advances closer.

The problem I seem to be having is that nothing ever gets stopped at pilum range, even when I hunt on level. I usually have to get a good amount below for it to actually work. Generally, the creatures go from advancing to pole to melee.

Now, I don't train in athletics, but I do train in tactics, intelligence and agility, and generally everything I hunt has inferior stats (with the exception of strength ... they all seem to have higher).
_________________
Life is grand. Then you become a surfer with a keen interest in thrilling acts of life-threatening stupidity and realize that the only real life, is the one full of fun times.

BoonDock Saints wrote:
When I raise my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold on judgment, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who haze me. Oh, Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
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