D&D 4th Edition

[HR-Trevor]

I don't know how many of you play D&D, but 4th Edition was announced yesterday and I just made a big post to my local D&D Meetup group, which I thought I'd paste here too.

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Fairly recently I was talking to Dan and said that I thought WoTC was going to make their own character generation tool (like eTools, PCGen, etc.) which I based on the fact that the publishers of those tools had lost their license (hence those programs don't contain newer materials.) Little did I know I was only scratching the surface on this concept.

What WoTC is doing is brilliant. They want to sell lots of product, they probably have some people who are salivating to redo core parts of the game, and piracy via PDF's has to be a significant concern. So, what do they do? They address all three issues in one fell swoop - a swoop that necessitated releasing a new edition.

In May 2008, the 43 PHB comes out (MM in June, DMG in July, other product throughout 2008). Some leadups will come out December 2007 / January 2008, previews of sorts, "Wizards Presents: Classes and Races" and "Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters". However, here's where the PDF issue is addressed - online tools built by Wizards.

These tools, which include character generators, map/dungeon builders, and pretty much anything WoTC can think of to offer as a tool online will require key codes found in the books you buy. As you collect these codes, you use them on the WoTC site and gain access to new options in the online tools based on the relevant book. To use a 3.5e example, it would be like punching in a code for Complete Warrior in the site and now your character generator tool can pick the prestige classes in CW. Or, using your code for a specific adventure book and gaining access to the maps online.

Now, I don't know how much difference this really can or will make in terms of avoiding piracy - the only way to make it really effective is to make keys single use, so once you use it on a profile on the site, it can't be reused by someone else, but then we all know that many people will just window shop in their favorite gaming store and write down the code without buying the book. My guess is that maybe WoTC will put the code in a foil or other such envelope/wrapper inside the book or maybe outright seal books in plastic so you can't open them without removing the wrapping. I wonder how much this will change what shopping for D&D books is like.

Anyway, details on 4e itself are sketchy of course, but I'll share what I have found so far:

- One goal of 4e was described as going from a "textbook" feel in prior versions to a "magazine" feel in 4e. I'm not sure what this means.

- Tools on the D&D site will include: dungeon and adventure builders, pc generator, character generator and visualizer, "my" options like my campaign, my character, etc., D&D magazines.

- There's something called a "game table" to facilitate playing, but I don't know how it works exactly. Assumably it allows people to gather online and play online, and I'll bet they work in those above mentioned product codes somehow.

- Classes are being given more defined roles. I would expect fighters to be much more impressive in 4e than they are usually in 3.5e.

- There's mention of "power sources" for arcane and divine magic in the PHB apparently - how this fits in will be interesting to see. I have to wonder if the current spell slot system will stay or go.

- It sounds like the books will feature a ton of new art for those who are big on art stuff.

- Making it easier for new people to learn how to play is a noted goal. It sounds like perhaps some of the rules will be consolidated a bit, but that's going to be a question mark for now.

- OGL, d20, etc licenses will still exist.

That's all I know so far... I'm very interested to see how it goes. I have bought a ton of books in the last year, so I don't see myself giving up 3.5 lightly... but, I also realize that if this online thing works out in a big way, all those 3.5 books will be irrelevant for that purpose. Locally, it will be interesting to see how much resistance there is to change once we're into the fall/winter of 2008 and people have access to all three core books and a few other books.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[ZANQUINRAKEL]

Wow... sounds like they are getting it more internet friendly. Been a while since I was able to play in a campaign. But I am sure I know a few interested in a new edition.
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Zanquin Firestarter, Performer of many talents, alchemy addict, stratohunter addict and all-around crazy harlot

"You watched it, you can't UN-watch it!"

[HR-Mickey]

I remember that when 3rd edition first came out and I actually started reading the core books (which were marketed dirt cheap for the first few months, to help cajole players into buying them), I was more than ready to ditch stuff like thac0 and outdated classes and thought that the OGL was going to be WotC's most innovative step toward NOT being TSR. I even bought the first year or so's worth of crunchy content books.

And not long after that, in my opinion, WotC turned into not much more than Little Hasbro. They laid off some of their best talent ever (Sean Reynolds, for instance, who practically wrote the entire 3rd edition FR campaign book). Sourcebook retail prices got astronomical ($40 for some stuff, which is why I began just downloading pdfs instead, if anyone's keeping track). And then the coup de grace, "3.5", which is when I really began to dig my heels in. I know a lot of gamers were happy for it, but I didn't see the point; to me it was nothing more than 3rd edition with fixed errata that made all the other books obsolete, new damage reduction rules and a higher price tag (again, I opted for pdfs). And don't get me started on Eberron, the campaign they paid some guy $100,000 in a contest for after laying off aforementioned talent.

I'm not only disappointed for myself and other gamers that are going to have to pay for another brand new "edition" and all the presumably expensive books that follow, but have to wonder how it's going to impact the countless DIY and smaller OGL brands (Green Ronin, Mongoose, etc) who marketed for 3rd edition and will have to deal with 4th edition now.

But that's just me.
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.

[Seth Ventril]

I would look into it...If not for the fact it was a money scheme by Wizards of the Cost, and if not for the fact I can never find a decent play group.

Actually been thinking about trying to do D20 modern online, just can't find my book or interested parties.
_________________
Victim: Well, what is the creed?
Assassin: It's very secret, passed down for hundreds of generations. If I told you, I'd have to kill you.
Victim: Aren't you already killing me anyway?
Assassin: That's a good point...The creed is..."Stick them with the pointy end." - Ctrl+Alt+Del parody of Assassin's Creed.
---
TELEPATHY [close]:  Yaru Dex - "Great now you made Mickey cry. Thanks a lot, Seth."
---
Korell Ventril exclaims, "Choo ain no guard! Choo a crackhead!"

[HR-Trevor]

I have to say, in this case, I'm going to defend WoTC. What's dramatically different here is the online component (sure, the game rules sound dramatically different too), which necessitated a new version. You can't verify someone has bought a 3.5 book to give them a free code retroactively for the site, and it would be bad business if you could.

The online component will be big, I think. For instance, if the online tables work well, people who can't find a local group (a common complaint!) will have a place to play which isn't the same as in person gaming but it's as close as you can get right now. But, you'll be shelling out a fee.

BTW, some more info:
http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=24062
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[HR-Mickey]

[ZANQUINRAKEL]

In all honesty, I have been more interested in other systems, but if the changes are anything like the Star Wars SAGA they released this year, then it might bolster my faith in D&D, if not WotC.

The group I play with are addicted to Exalted, and if anyone suggests another Forgotten Realms game before my next birthday, I think I may get sick.
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Zanquin Firestarter, Performer of many talents, alchemy addict, stratohunter addict and all-around crazy harlot

"You watched it, you can't UN-watch it!"

[HR-Kelvin]

I think I'm going back to my 1st edition stuff. Yeah sure, it may rattle in places, but that's what you got a DM for.

[HR-Trevor]

The groups I game with never run Forgotten Realms. Once in a while Eberron. My main games are 1) a homebrew game (6th? Level exalted/vow of poverty cloistered cleric), 2) a warhammer world but D&D mechanics game with a chaos / evil theme (multiclassed level 7 character just newly into Dervish), and 3) a run of the Shackled City campaign (3rd level wizard - evoker spec'd).

For a while I had a weekly Eberron game running a beguiler, and later a daelkyr half-blood impure prince.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy

[tygerwulf]

I'm currently participating in 2 different campaigns of MERP, a StarWars RPG campaign, 1 D&D (Doing the World Largest Dungeon), a GammaWorld, and DMing a D20 Modern.
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>ask librarian about books
An elderly librarian says, "I don't know much about that, I'm afraid."

[ZANQUINRAKEL]

I was running 3 games at one time (Changeling, & 2 Exalted), two of which were bi-weekly. But I must say, your game schedule beats mine hands down, Tyger.
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Zanquin Firestarter, Performer of many talents, alchemy addict, stratohunter addict and all-around crazy harlot

"You watched it, you can't UN-watch it!"

[HR-Mickey]

I don't get to game much at all anymore because of how little free time I've got, but I still manage to get in some quick games of Three Dragon Ante and I play the Pirates CSG when I can.

On the rare occasion when I see my group, we're alternating between a couple homebrews (12th rogue, 5th paladin), a D20 Future game (Charismatic hero), a D20 Warhammer-esque campaign (Trollslayer), and Mutants and Masterminds (TK/telepath) on occasion.

Edit: And Freeport, fighter17.
_________________
Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.

[tygerwulf]

My group meets once a week, and each person in the group runs a different campaign, we trade off each week. So, sometimes it'll be a month between times of playing the same campaign.
_________________
>ask librarian about books
An elderly librarian says, "I don't know much about that, I'm afraid."

[ZANQUINRAKEL]

Cool, I bet that works well for each GM. It is loads easier when you have at least two weeks to prepare.
_________________
Zanquin Firestarter, Performer of many talents, alchemy addict, stratohunter addict and all-around crazy harlot

"You watched it, you can't UN-watch it!"