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So.. yea, I figured I'd post again.
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Guardians » So.. yea, I figured I'd post again.
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: So.. yea, I figured I'd post again.
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I think Guardians need more new people options. Guardian doesn't really start getting interesting until 20th or so promotion, because you get meditation of light, and pummel. Most people who play guardians seem to quit before reaching the interesting parts. I don't know how we can accomplish this.. but I figured I could open it up to ideas. It'd be nice for all the youngins to really get into it!

Galeth
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"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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Hubert



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 44

 Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject:
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I very much agree. Guardian is a really difficult role to get into. It took me quite some time to find my "niche". I think the main issue I had was to figure out what to concentrate on, and I think I figured out that there isn't one particular thing.

Of course, the more senior Guardians can play a nice (RP) role, backed up by some awesome powers, when PvP comes in/back, but it all comes back down to surviving those first 20 or 30 levels.

Maybe there could be some expansion on the role the "guild" sees for its Guardians. Protectors of people, bringers of harmony, lovely... but to what end? In what manner? How are we Guardians different from Troopers (in philosophy/methods)... that kinda thing. Having more clarity on this, rather than having to find ones own way, may popularise Guardianhood (ship? ity? ness?) long enough to keep the starters.
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HR-Marcus



Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 15

 Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject:
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All great thoughts!!!

Maybe we would be best served drawing up the role and clarifying WHAT a Guardian really is. It is allot more difficult profession to define than the others, IMO.
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JiNx-HR



Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 15

 Post Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject:
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Guardians will be keeping Jinx alive once PvP comes back. That really should be their only role at this point.
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Hubert



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject:
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I would suggest we don't kill anybody, except Jinx Laughing Over and over and over and over... Razz

But, on topic, I'll have a good think about how *I* see the Guardian's role, and then if the others do the same, we might come up with something that stretches the alignment spectrum (if we want to allow that).
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HR-Marcus



Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject:
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My schedule makes it very hard for me to be in a discussion with you all about this. I want to hear from you though, so post here, send PMs, send email, whatever...so we can communicate about this.

THANX!!!
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject:
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The only downfall to having guardians be aligned a certain way (unless that isn't what you meant Hubert) is it affecting the ward ability, and it kind of limits the extent of role'ing guardians. Cause Guardian's can either be leaning towards the evil, or good gods, leaving them their own decisions on how to run their life. I know trackers are hindered by being evil.. is this something you were talking about? Being hindered by either good/bad alignment?

On other thoughts, Guardian's, to my understanding, were just holy warriors that understood/studied the god's language and communicated directly with them, whether that god be evil or good. Other than that Guardian's never were discussed or understood as far as their purpose. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on that portion Smile

Galeth
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"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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Xeio Yarroi



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 11

 Post Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject:
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Galeth Lothain wrote:
The only downfall to having guardians be aligned a certain way (unless that isn't what you meant Hubert) is it affecting the ward ability, and it kind of limits the extent of role'ing guardians. Cause Guardian's can either be leaning towards the evil, or good gods, leaving them their own decisions on how to run their life. I know trackers are hindered by being evil.. is this something you were talking about? Being hindered by either good/bad alignment?

On other thoughts, Guardian's, to my understanding, were just holy warriors that understood/studied the god's language and communicated directly with them, whether that god be evil or good. Other than that Guardian's never were discussed or understood as far as their purpose. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on that portion Smile

Galeth


On my trooper I had a very interesting IC conversation with Galeth regarding the nature of what guardians were, and what purpose they served. The summary of the conversation was that both troopers and guardians are inherently forces of Order. Troopers by throwing the disorderly in jail, which Guardians would have a slightly more diverse skill set for bringing situations under control. Just as being a trooper does not make my trooper good (It is his family history and upbringing that did that) being a guardian does not, as I understand it, determine ones alignment.

To use a common alignment labelling systems, troopers and guardians are both "any lawful." I think a way of making the guardian class a bit more interesting (and to further differenciate them from troopers) might be to give more variance in strengths and weaknesses according to alignment. Different god bestow different blessings.
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject:
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Good idea about the bestowing of blessings from the good/evil gods. Would make a nice benefit if Guardian's could pray to their god of choice and get some kind of benefit for a short amount of time. But then again, what's that leave for the neutral Guardians? Maybe being able to do both gods but not as much AS an affect? Or maybe a shorter affect?
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"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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Hubert



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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 Post Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject:
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Good ideas by Xeio, even if I would suggest that, using same famous alignment system, Troopers'd be the Lawful good/neutral/evil ones, with Guardians being more Chaotic (or Neutral).

As for the relationship with the god of choice goes: I think that'd be a great idea. The perqs the god bestows on the Guardian do not have to be powerful (especially not at low levels), but having such a relationship would make it a lot easier to RP: The god's background gives you a "handle".

Similary, you don't want to bombard the n00b when first entering into the game by having to select a god. That can wait until level 5 or so (or maybe even earlier); that would put it in line with all the other powers for all the other characters that don't really start before that. On reaching level 5, Jornnoj (or the other chap that doesn't do much) could ask you to "pick a god, any god".
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JiNx-HR



Joined: 10 Jul 2004
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 Post Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject:
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Hubert wrote:
pick a god, any god".



I choose Jinx!
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject:
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I don't like the idea of Guardians HAVING to be chaotic, or HAVING to be a certain alignment, is that what you meant Hubert?

And more into the gods bestow.. I believe that would be very beneficial to the young ones to aid them. However.. we should have a place where they can read about the gods more, each god bestowing different abilities. Good god bestowing more agility/coord, or maybe even something off the wall like higher regen rate.. evil god doing something like lowering mentals but raising strength.. I dunno, something to think about Smile

Galeth Lothain
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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Hubert



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject:
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Nope, didn't mean you HAVE to be of chaotic alignment, or Any... the suggestion was merely to indicate what might be a tendency within the adherents of a certain rank. I hate games where playing class X means you have to be Lawful Good. The fact that all Orcs are supposed to be Chaotic Evil to me smacks of a level of racism I don't want any part of.

What I was trying to do was find a way to distinguish the role of the Guardian from that of the Trooper. Now, what with Mickey's little spoilers on the Justice system, that distinction may be becoming a lot more pronounced: Troopers seem to be getting specific roles within that system (but that may be very limited), and Guardians obviously don't (unless they are the perps of course).

Been thinking... we need to be careful too with handing out God powers (or maybe they should be called Jinxes?) because I think the Disciples will be coming into HR at some point (any comment, GMs?) and don't want to create new confusion between the Disciple and the Guardian.
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Galeth Lothain
Er, der wahr ist


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 126
Location: That one place with that one town with that one house on that one street

 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject:
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Good point, however aren't disciples merely followers? That means they could study the powers of the gods, or work with them, doesn't necessarily mean that the gods would bestow their powers to them.

Guardians (so i was told by Hunter) were the ones who understood the god's language, being able to interpret it so they were the closest to the gods than any other profession.

Another thing people think of, is that they are holy warriors.. when really they're not.. but it could be changed to that, they could be the fighters for the gods, hence why they get the bestowing and not any other profession.. maybe?

Galeth Lothain
_________________
"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."
-- Konrad Adenauer

"Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy"
--Aristotle
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject:
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Galeth Lothain wrote:
Good point, however aren't disciples merely followers? That means they could study the powers of the gods, or work with them, doesn't necessarily mean that the gods would bestow their powers to them.


based on what we saw during the Darju vs Alteri Disciple stuff, Disciples have direct contact with gods and wield holy items that contain their power.

(That said I see no reason why Guardians and Disciples can't both be faith-driven professions, with Guardians being the brawl and Disciples being the brains, even though both would be rather intelligent groups)
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