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Experience Carry Over
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Experience Carry Over
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Okay, I've come to a decision on this issue. Barring any amazing ideas popping up that seem better, this is what players can expect.

If you choose to make use of the carry over system, it lasts for your current game levels, max level 150. So, if you have enough experience in the existing game to be level 170, you get 150 level worth of bonus duration. If you're level 30 in the existing game you get 30 levels worth of duration, etc.

The actual bonus you receive during that duration you will decide. You have 50 percentage points to allocate between knowledge, prestige and resources.

Example: Bob has enough experience to be level 160. He is capped at 150 because durations can't exceed that. Bob decides to put 20% into knowledge, 15% in prestige and 15% in resources.

Bob starts the game at level 1. Until he reaches level 150, he will gain experience 20% faster, he'll earn faction/favor with various groups and political affiliations 15% faster, and he'll acquire certain game materials and resources 15% more easily.

So, you can choose what to do with that 50%. You can dump it all into the knowledge and get to level 200 much faster than others, but you'll be optioning to deny yourself other potential benefits in the process. Likewise, you could dump all 50% into prestige or resources and receive the appropriate boons, but you'll lose out on the other stuff. Your call.

Finally, some might ask, "So what if I resist levelling?" The answer is that you can do so if you wish but this is based on experience totals and it's very hard to gain anything in this game without gaining experience at the same time. Wink
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject:
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what are those three categories, now? :/

YES I WAS RELOADING HR BOARDS AGAIN SLOW DAY AT THE WORKINS ON THE INTERWEB
Very Happy
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HR-Trevor
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Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject:
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Knowledge: Experience (both level and skill) gain bonus. If you have 20 points of your 50 max in this, you gain experience 20% faster.

Prestige: Faction gain. Faction will be an important aspect of Haelrahv in Live. Access to areas, resources, and many more benefits will be based upon how well you are liked by a specific NPC or group. Your ability to engage in politics will be affected by your prestige. If you have 20 points out of your 50 max (for instance), you gain this prestige 20% more quickly.

Resources: Your ability to gather resources is increased. You're able to find things in cases where normally you might not be able to do so. Resources include pretty much anything used in a crafting process, with exception of pure luck treasure items and the like. This directly translates into more supplies for crafters, or more wealth in the case of resources you don't use directly.
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Tao



Joined: 19 Nov 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject:
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Is this to replace stats? Cause it sounds more like the some of current stat stuff a lil bit.

Knowledge: Intell and Mentals
Prestige: Charisma
Resources: Perception
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject:
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No, not at all. Stats still exist. These are bonuses you can choose based on your current experience in the beta game. People in Live, down the road, who never played in the beta game won't have any of these bonuses.

Instead of simply carrying over X experience, this is what you're getting in Live. X amount of experience, Y amount of prestige, and Z amount of resources. You pick what X, Y and Z is, total max 50.

So, you can pick what's important to you. To some, experience is crucial. To others, prestige or wealth would be much more fun.
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Tao



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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject:
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Kewl kewl
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indigone
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject:
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The more I read about the Live stuff, the more I think that it will be a completely different game than what we've become used to.

It sounds like making this particular decision (how much of the bonus you want to allocate to each experience type) is going to be really important to your character and a good way to screw up right out of the shoot. Probably means that I'll shelf my oldest character, and play one of my younger characters for a while, a long while, until we see the experience types and how this new game will work.

And on a similar, unrelated topic. I've enjoyed HR so far because of the way it fits an otherwise busy lifestyle. It made me feel like for once, it was a game that wasn't trying to make addicts of people and actually appreciated the part-time player.

I like the slow drain so you can socialize if you want and feel like you are still accomplishing something. I like that you buy skills/stats so that you don't have to sit around and do repetitve tasks to have a better skill set and have more fun. I like that you can develop a character based on ideals rather than scripts. I like that I don't have to be banging on my keyboard for 8 hours a day to enjoy a growing set of skills and abilities and to be able to hunt new and different things. I like that the player base has a contingent of part-time players.

I know that this was NOT how I felt about other places I've paid to play and part of the big draw I've felt to HR.

I don't know that all that will be thrown out in Live, but I do want you to know what I appreciate about HR. If this is simply a side effect you weren't aware of, I'd sure like it to be considered.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject:
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my one question about the bonus stuff ending at X level:

based on how the bonus stuff works (at X level it shuts off), from a "getting the most out of your bonus"-wise perspective, would it technically be best to avoid using the knowledge bonus, as that would make us level faster (from what i understand) and thus making a smaller (long-term-wise) payoff in the other two fields?

because i'd love for yaru to use his bonus semi-icly, where he's quick to understand things (knowledge) and his general well-loved sell (prestige), skipping the treasure bonus. but from the sound of things by having points in knowledge i'll level faster, making it so i don't get as much bang for my buck out of prestige.
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject:
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I can understand your concern. In reality, we're stuck in an unappealing situation. Some players have become accustomed to how HR works and like it, such as yourself. On the other hand, it's become evident that this isn't the norm, and that most players would like some changes. It's also become evident that there are some inherent problems in how the game operates right now.

Currently, there is little effort involved in advancing through the game. You can do almost anything to gain experience (which is nice), but then you can park yourself in a room of choice and go AFK for potentially hours and just drain away. You might as well be AFK scripting because a) you gain the whole time, and b) you don't drain less if your pool gets more shallow.

The goal is to try to make this all as accomodating as is possible within the boundaries of wise planning and balance (and fun, duh!) For instance, the issue of that major choice as to how to allocate your "carry over" experience. There's no reason why we can't allow you to change that choice once in a while. It just needs to be protected from abuse, so that either X time or Y levels need to pass before you can change gears. Again, we can go further and allow both conditions to pass the test, so if you're someone who doesn't play a lot, you're not held back on changing your mind. Time passes, and you can eventually redo that choice.

Is it true that in Live you'll need to be scripting or constantly gaining to maximize your stats? Yes, it is. And it's intended. It keeps you engaged in the game, instead of being parked in a room for hours, idling your life to the next step of godliness. However, it's not our intent to cause you to be completely disabled if you don't rapid fire gain. In other words, we do try to compromise on things in many cases, and there will be some compromise here, too.

Will you need to be here 8 hours a day? No, you won't. Will you gain more if you are? Yes. I think that's fair.

I also want to say that I attempt to serve the masses in all of my decisions. I attempt to do what the community wants. This requires some interpretation, and sometimes my interpretation isn't 100%, but decisions made about the game are made because I believe it's what the overall community we have wants, not what I personally want.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
my one question about the bonus stuff ending at X level:

based on how the bonus stuff works (at X level it shuts off), from a "getting the most out of your bonus"-wise perspective, would it technically be best to avoid using the knowledge bonus, as that would make us level faster (from what i understand) and thus making a smaller (long-term-wise) payoff in the other two fields?

because i'd love for yaru to use his bonus semi-icly, where he's quick to understand things (knowledge) and his general well-loved sell (prestige), skipping the treasure bonus. but from the sound of things by having points in knowledge i'll level faster, making it so i don't get as much bang for my buck out of prestige.


That is a trade off, yes. You'll essentially get X% less out of your prestige bonus, where X is what bonus to knowledge you took.

By the way, just to be clear, the resources bonus isn't as simple as just a "treasure" bonus. The way I have it envisioned, it can include a lot of abstract things such as finding plants more easily when you forage, or mining a next-to-impossible to find gem a little more easily. Keeping in mind of course that said gem would likely have a special crafting purpose. I imagine a high level character who takes a 50% to resources will have more significance in the community than many would think.
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject:
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preface: stop me if i'm wrong here

the only downside i see to the bonus setup is that when the bonus dies when you hit level X, and hitting level X is all based on your knowledge pools anyway.

so it then becomes bad (?) to level fast and then build up other things, and is instead better to try to milk as much out of everything while doing your best not to level.

IMO, i'd rather there be different shut-off gauges for each bonus area. like if you use the prestige bonus, it lasts until you reach X level of prestige, but that wouldn't shut off your knowledge bonus, which shuts off when you earn X points in your skill pool, and your treasure bonus cuts off at whatever would make sense for that.
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With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject:
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Scenario: I have 30 levels worth of bonus. I set it to 50% resources and enjoy that for 29 levels. I switch it to prestige and ride it 29 levels. I switch it to knowledge and ride it 30 (accelerated) levels.

Unless you're suggesting you get 30 levels total, in which you would get more out of your prestige and resource bonuses but less out of your knowledge bonus.

Maybe I'm missing some other scenario. If each type of bonus has its own counter and you're allowed to change your decision as to what percentage to allocate where, I can see major abuse. I'd hate to force people to keep their decision forever when it's such a big one.
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject:
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i was thinking more...

scenario: 30 levels of bonus which are allocated as...
1) give myself 25% knowledge
2) give myself 15% prestige
2) give myself 10% resources

functions as:
1) knowledge: you learn at a 125% rate until you gain X amounts of points total, X being what you would need to be level 30.
2) prestige: you gain prestige at a 115% rate until you reach X amount of prestige, X being what you would be expected to have at level 30.
3) resources: you gain resources at a 110% rate until you gain X amount of wealth, X being what one would normally expect to gain at level 30.

that way, someone can't stay low level but milk prestige and resources. along with that (and more importantly i say!), someone who, say, didn't put any points into knowledge and put a ton into prestige, but didn't really start using the prestige stuff until 20 levels in doesn't end up with only getting 10 levels of a bonus.

it also, in my mind, helps prevent people from really regretting their choices, since all the bonuses do is really help them do things faster. someone who has a 100% prestige gain rate isn't going to really miss out compared to someone with a 150% prestige gain rate - they'll just do it at the normal pace.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject:
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I think I've worked out a formula I can use, I just need to proof it.
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zamde
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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject:
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Since I shot my mouth off in the other thread re: experience, I want to make sure to say that I like this idea. The 150 cap is a major owch, but I'm glad for the 50% drain.
While I think about that, is the plan still to use the experience drain/level system from last year or so? The one where higher level characters have higher to-level amounts, but drain more experience per pulse?
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