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Broker/Trader/Merchant
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RLH



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Llanfair Courthouse

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject:
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[quote="soundless"]i thought the merchant thing was one of the possible secondary class things for live already, along with the political thing.[/quote

Im hoping there will some kind of broker/merchant as a primary. That is the type of character I enjoy playing.
_________________
S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The real issue isnt whether or not there is a morally acceptable amount of sex or violence, the real issue is; how can we put more sex in our violence?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xavain Gramorham says, "Yet you wanted to marry Mellie."
You hear the voice of Yaru Dex say, "For her MONEY geez! Not her VA****!."
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soundless
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject:
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i'm glad you like playing brokers, as the game will always be better with more than just hack and slashers.

that said, there's nothing stopping you from playing as a merchant while being in another class. yaru is being roleplayed as a student in school. since there is no generic civillian profession, nor is there a student/education-based profession, i picked artisan so i could go "okay, fine, art school." if i didn't pick that, i would have picked 'crat, since that is another possible education-based profession (i didn't due to yaru's age).

there is nothing that will stop you from being a merchant. be a merchant! it won't say "MERCHANT" in your info display, but who cares? there's no reason this should dscourage you, ever, from wanting to play a business person or a politician.

the reason for no brokers, AFAIK is this: it is hard to give a profession a political-based focus when so much of politics is based on RP. it's hard for a GM, any GM, to try and balance on that kind of blade. along with that, everyone always tries to sell things themselves. they like doing it. some more than others (they become crats!), but once again it's hard to divvy up who can sell things what way. when that happens, it just discourages some to use easier OOC methods to sell things (hello every DR yahoo sales group ever).

it isn't that crats are bad, or that they're not useful. it's that what they do has a large (yet thin) net over a lot of other things, both in RP and the ability to make money outside of combat. and to give them a preference in those things makes it difficult for certain things to function smoothly.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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RLH



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Llanfair Courthouse

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject:
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I know that I can rp that way but I really would prefer to actually gain my experience doing it. Try and put yourself in my position. How would you like it if they scraped Artisans and said..well you can always tailor, and do artisan things as a sub category or just rp it out...

Its just not the same.
_________________
S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The real issue isnt whether or not there is a morally acceptable amount of sex or violence, the real issue is; how can we put more sex in our violence?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xavain Gramorham says, "Yet you wanted to marry Mellie."
You hear the voice of Yaru Dex say, "For her MONEY geez! Not her VA****!."
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soundless
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject:
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RLH wrote:
I know that I can rp that way but I really would prefer to actually gain my experience doing it. Try and put yourself in my position. How would you like it if they scraped Artisans and said..well you can always tailor, and do artisan things as a sub category or just rp it out...

Its just not the same.


that's just it, it is the same to me. don't forget, i picked artisan as a compromise from the start (if i didn't pick artisan or 'crat, agent would have been next since that also is a generally non-combat ultra-focused group and yaru could have been a very "aware of the city" kind of kid), i wanted yaru to be a non-warrior class because he was just a kid going to school in llanfair.

and i'm very sure any secondary class thing like merchant or broker or lawyer or whatever will still be a viable way to gain exp.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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RLH



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Llanfair Courthouse

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject:
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Call me a pesimist but I doubt it will be a good way to gain exp, of course thats just a guess since we wont know until live, but it just seems to me that the powers that be dont really see the value of a broker/merchant/lawyerly <is that even a word> profession.

Crats is really what sparked my passion for HR, because of the trying cases part. I have found other reasons why I love it since that first day but its still one of my favorite things about the game.
_________________
S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The real issue isnt whether or not there is a morally acceptable amount of sex or violence, the real issue is; how can we put more sex in our violence?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xavain Gramorham says, "Yet you wanted to marry Mellie."
You hear the voice of Yaru Dex say, "For her MONEY geez! Not her VA****!."
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soundless
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:27 pm    Post subject:
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RLH wrote:
it just seems to me that the powers that be dont really see the value of a broker/merchant/lawyerly <is that even a word> profession.


i think the GMs see a great amount of value in characters who deals in politics and trade, but the problem that arises is that something like politics and trade is generally something everyone should be encouraged to participate in to make a game great, not just one specific profession.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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RLH



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Llanfair Courthouse

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject:
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**sidebar** I have given up on quotes Laughing

I agree that the polictical layer of the Crat profession should be made open to everyone, butI dont understand how having lawyer and broker skills open to everyone makes sense. I think it would be great if the lawyer and broker skills were sperated. If you were a lawyer, your focus would be on trying cases, and being involved in player justice and stuff. If you were a broker it would fall more into a merchant profession. Im willing to bet people are going to miss those Crat bonuses when they sell stuff.
_________________
S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The real issue isnt whether or not there is a morally acceptable amount of sex or violence, the real issue is; how can we put more sex in our violence?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xavain Gramorham says, "Yet you wanted to marry Mellie."
You hear the voice of Yaru Dex say, "For her MONEY geez! Not her VA****!."
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject:
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i don't think the lawyer/politician/merchant thing is going to all be one profession, but a ton of separate possibilities that someone can get into, regardless of which class.

and while i love the broker bonus, i can't say i'm going to miss the lack of the ability to sell all my commods at once, as opposed to spamming commands over and over manually or via script. and, for all we know, a high level merchant ability will be getting that kind of profit.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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RLH



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Llanfair Courthouse

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject:
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My point is that is should be exclusive to a single profession. Just like tailoring is going to be exclusive to Artisans.
_________________
S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The real issue isnt whether or not there is a morally acceptable amount of sex or violence, the real issue is; how can we put more sex in our violence?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xavain Gramorham says, "Yet you wanted to marry Mellie."
You hear the voice of Yaru Dex say, "For her MONEY geez! Not her VA****!."
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
I agree that the polictical layer of the Crat profession should be made open to everyone, butI dont understand how having lawyer and broker skills open to everyone makes sense.


The way things are going to work in Live, how you spend your time is going to determine what (for the most part) your character is good at. If Shareen argued cases from dawn to dusk, while still technically being an artisan or whatever, she would most likely be more of a lawyer than a tailor. Granted, you can spend your accumulated points however you see fit, but you're probably going to end up throwing them into skills that benefit you in arguing cases.

Also, nobody has to see that you're technically an Artisan. You can turn off your profession from showing up in your LOOK through a SETting. So you can go work cases during the day, and if you get bored, you can go make some clothes in your spare time. But everyone will know you as Super Lawyer Shareen.

Anyway. Politics, at least in federal and democratic government systems, is open to everyone. Everyone has a voice. If Bubba wants to run for Governor, and everyone else in the state agrees with his viewpoints, then he's probably going to get elected and push through legislation to satisfy his constituents. It doesn't really matter that Bubba, just days before throwing his name into the ring, was flipping burgers in McDonalds. Bubba was, professionally, a cook. But he turned his secondary passion of politics into his new profession.

Now, I will concede that brokering being open to everyone is a little more difficult to explain away. But I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to come up with something.

--William
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject:
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RLH wrote:
My point is that is should be exclusive to a single profession. Just like tailoring is going to be exclusive to Artisans.


i agree that getting profits should be exclusive to a single profession, but you also have to consider this.

1) everyone should be able to sell in bulk, regardless of if there's a bonused profit from it. why? because making them not be able to do this just encourage a sales script instead. it's not really a bonus for brokers as a hinderance for everyone else.

2) politics will be open to all for the sake of politics being more RP based than skill/stat based (although if someone has their character act more according to skills/stats, more power to them- this is why yaru has 250+ research).

3) if court cases are open to all as well, what do 'crats, as they stand now, have? the only major bonus/boon/ability they would have is a bonus from selling commods. and, if that is the case, is that enough to base a whole profession on?

edit: i think what i'm getting at (and why the GMs came to this conlusion) isn't that 'crats are a bad concept for a profession, but that there just isn't that much to give them to make them a viable option, as opposed to what to take/restrict other professions from doing to make them a viable option. i'm very sure that if you know of a way to expand 'crats beyond "make a good profit" while also keeping in mind all players should be able to sell wares without going bonkers and that politics is open to all, the GMs would be thrilled to listen.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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RLH



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Llanfair Courthouse

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject:
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I agree that bulk selling should be for everyone and save the bonus and price hit for the professionals. I mean really.. what a pain in the butt to have to sell one thing at a time. Dont you think people enjoy the bonus they get from using a Crat to sell their loot?

As I said earlier, everyone should be able to participate in the political system. It will give a great boost to character driven rp and really open up a venue for more "formal" events. Can you imagine the campaign ads! Laughing

As far as I know, only Crats can study and try cases. Thats a big deal actually, its a lot of fun believe it or not. Crats are needed for marriage and divorce licenses too. So the skills are used. I would LOVE to see an all Law profession, cases teaching more, and paying better. Really intergrate the profession into the justice sytem and make it viable in live.
_________________
S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The real issue isnt whether or not there is a morally acceptable amount of sex or violence, the real issue is; how can we put more sex in our violence?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xavain Gramorham says, "Yet you wanted to marry Mellie."
You hear the voice of Yaru Dex say, "For her MONEY geez! Not her VA****!."
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:20 pm    Post subject:
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I haven't read ALL the posts here (wow, what a hot topic today) but let me state a few facts:

1. There will be no class dedicated specifically to brokering, arguing cases, etc.

2. Brokering as we know it is not going to be in Live, for many reasons. A few include:
- Finding someone to help you sell things can be a real pain in the ass.
- Running a script to sell things to avoid the can't-sell-more-than-one limitation non-Crats suffer is a nuisance.
- Brokering creates a significant amount of free money for virtually no work.
- People need personal reason to train charisma, persuasion, etc rather than relying on someone else's skills/stats.
- Brokering is really just dumbed down economics anyway, we can do better.

3. Some financial and political services will continue to exist:
- Vault expansions
- Licenses, as needed
- Judicial representation (legal cases)
- Traditional political action such as campaigning, altering laws (seriously)
- I'm sure there'll be more than that, too.

4. That's just the player-related stuff. NPC related stuff includes:
- Legal cases for NPC's
- Licenses and other paperwork for NPC's.
- Transporting goods for profit
- Lots more. There'll be plenty to do when players don't need any services at the moment.

5. This means, of course, that you can earn a viable living (experience and stats) as a purely political/economic-minded character.

6. If the "other" profession (Artisan, whatever) bothers you, you can opt to just not choose any profession and be a "Denizen". This carries no penalties or benefits, other than the fact you don't get any special skills or abilities for being a Denizen. You can pick up your profession at any time, so you could also be a Denizen for a really long time and then pick up that profession later. Denizens have access to the full general skill list.

7. Advancing the political layer isn't merely a hobby. Only characters who devote a lot of time into it will excel in it. You're not going to have a case where everyone has a high level profession and they also are very advanced in the political or economic aspects.

I feel like I'm forgetting other details, but that's a lot of the picture, anyway.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 3648
Location: Northern Georgia

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject:
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Two things I like about Trevor's post:

Altering laws. Freaking awesome. I can't wait for a city to suddenly disallow all forms of blatant body alteration (piercings, tattoos, cybergear). That will be hilarious. One thing I'd like to know, though, is there going to be a GM liaison between city governors and the GM(s) that "own" the various cities? Because say, for instance, one city wants to start an alcohol prohibition, but there are tons of bars and restaurants that offer booze on their menu. It'd require some GM intervention to fix that.

Ability to opt out of choosing a profession. This is really nice; I always liked that about DR and wished HR would pick it up. It gives (new) people a lot more time to figure out what they like about all the various systems and what they'd like to delve into further. I almost want it to be required to be a "denizen" for a few levels before you get to choose a profession. That way you won't have people bemoaning the fact they weren't aware of x-facet about z-system and now want a reallocation.

A+ all around, though.

--William
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject:
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William the Wonder Llama wrote:
Two things I like about Trevor's post:

Altering laws. Freaking awesome. I can't wait for a city to suddenly disallow all forms of blatant body alteration (piercings, tattoos, cybergear). That will be hilarious. One thing I'd like to know, though, is there going to be a GM liaison between city governors and the GM(s) that "own" the various cities? Because say, for instance, one city wants to start an alcohol prohibition, but there are tons of bars and restaurants that offer booze on their menu. It'd require some GM intervention to fix that.


Yeah... I dunno. It might turn out to be necessary based on what options are offered exactly, but I need to make distinction: There are two forms of towns - the kind that exist because GM's make them, and the kind that exist because player characters make them. The options available to each will vary, and far less freedom will be given to changing the laws of GM designed towns.

William the Wonder Llama wrote:
Ability to opt out of choosing a profession. This is really nice; I always liked that about DR and wished HR would pick it up. It gives (new) people a lot more time to figure out what they like about all the various systems and what they'd like to delve into further. I almost want it to be required to be a "denizen" for a few levels before you get to choose a profession. That way you won't have people bemoaning the fact they weren't aware of x-facet about z-system and now want a reallocation.


The one saving grace here is that people will at least need to find where to sign up for the profession. This all sounds pretty DR-ish probably, but it's not really. A lot of people have asked for the ability to choose their profession at a later time, so we're giving it to them. Simple as that.
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