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Crashing and a polite request
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Alchemy & Poisons » Crashing and a polite request
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Tugor
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Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 1483
Location: Yeah. . .right.

 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject:
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Dzynna wrote:
Quote:
I've asked nicely and put it bluntly how much it screws everyone over. Now I'm done asking nicely - frankly I'm done with the conversation. I think I've said all that needs to be said. It's up to the rest of you to decide if you want to continue to be a dick or not.


So what? Just because you've had your say doesn't mean others have finished. You can't just go off like that then dismiss anyone's chance of a rebuttle. It doesn't work like that. I still have shit to say and you can call me a dick all you want.

Basically it sounds like you're crying because someone crashed all the easy potions before anyone else could sell theirs. HOLY MOTHERFUCKING SHIT!! Does this mean that EVERYONE who's making potions is making the easy ones, INCLUDING YOU??? It sure as hell sounds like it, and as I said before it sure as hell sounds like that's what you're crying about.

There are other options you know. Make the 'harder' potions. Oh no, it might take a little more time but I'm sure that with everyone having foraging mules it won't be TOO hard. Jesus, you act like there aren't any options left once the 'easy' potions have been crashed.
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Last edited by Tugor on Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:05 am; edited 2 times in total
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Morgana



Joined: 02 Aug 2003
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject:
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So Dzy before you bought your home you only sold one or two potions at a time?
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Dzynna
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Joined: 11 Jan 2004
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject:
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Tshar wrote:
It doesn't work like that. I still have shit to say and you can call me a dick all you want.


I've never had to. Regardless of the topic. Speak on. Just know it doesn't mean shit to me because my opinions and my feelings don't mean shit to you.

Morgana wrote:
So Dzy before you bought your home you only sold one or two potions at a time?


READ from the first post:
Dzynna wrote:
I never make more than a few of each kind. Why? Because I'm making an effort to not ruin the market for the rest of you.


Actually, the last 5 times I've made potions, it has been one of each.
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Morgana



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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject:
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Nevermind. This thread is just a rant and complaint that is degrading into name calling and not furthering the improvement of HR.

I've said my peace. I help as many as I can when there is a need. I'm not a miser. My goal is to get a luxury home. I'll get there eventually selling my potions off as they get high again. Wink
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Tugor
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:18 am    Post subject:
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HR-Mickey wrote:
My recent suggestion would be to give mining some randomized fumble/don't find/failure (or trample, as it were, an empty vein) aspect to make it more like foraging. Like vyeftium, except for everything. At the very least, it would apply the brakes to those higher-end potions with a single forageable component in its mixture, which is what makes those potions so enticing.


I agree, that would help a bit.
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:18 am    Post subject:
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Just interjecting off-topic, a socialist market is actually what everybody seems to want; fixed, pre-planned prices with no surprises or side effects of capitalism (slow recovery, fluctuations of supply and demand, etc).

Only pointing that out, since I'm not sure you understood exactly what you were saying.
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Brokyn
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Joined: 19 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject:
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HR-Mickey wrote:
Just interjecting off-topic, a socialist market is actually what everybody seems to want; fixed, pre-planned prices with no surprises or side effects of capitalism (slow recovery, fluctuations of supply and demand, etc).

Only pointing that out, since I'm not sure you understood exactly what you were saying.




--William

[Edit:] On a tangent, I wonder if Haelrahv has a communist-esque political party. That could be fun to roleplay.
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Brokyn
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject:
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Double-post, I know, but this one isn't for joking. I promise.

The major problem, really, is that alchemy is the only creation system that relies on a somewhat random and uncontrolled selling environment. No other creation system is like that; you're pretty much guaranteed x-amount of cash when you're finished. Granted, alchemy is perhaps one of the more (if not the most) involved systems -- there's a ton of time/money invested in acquiring components, refining components, and then the (hyperbole:) two second combining of components.

I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, alchemy is probably the best cash cow system available, so it's understandable that the payoff per potion should be relatively random. But on the other hand, it's so different from other creation systems that it might seem unfair.

Maybe other creation systems should have some kind of supply/demand calculation factored into their payoffs? But then you'd have to have a ticker for every craftable item. Or that could be a profession-specific boons -- performers can ask around and see what shops would like what songs notated, artisans can ask around and see what shops want what tailored, et al. If you sell the right thing, you'll likely get a +cash bonus, just like if you sell the wrong thing, you'll likely get a -cash bonus.

I don't know. In the end, there's always going to be someone unhappy.

Balance sucks balls.

--William
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Tylen
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject:
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Tugor wrote:
It's like the damn stock market.


If only.

HR-Mickey wrote:
Just interjecting off-topic, a socialist market is actually what everybody seems to want; fixed, pre-planned prices with no surprises or side effects of capitalism (slow recovery, fluctuations of supply and demand, etc).


Heh, not me.
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HR-Beau
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:52 am    Post subject:
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Personally, I have nothing against people making as many of one potion and selling them. I like market crashes. I like people making less money. It means I can charge less for what I sell and STILL make it hard for you to buy. Smile
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ragonda
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Joined: 08 Sep 2003
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:12 am    Post subject:
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dreg never made a potion in her life and neither does she really understand the markets that well .

she tries to forage a little of everything and sell it all a box at a time .

i do not know how everything could be fair for all professions but i would like to suggest on the hope that its workable......

if we had several stock markets around healrahv where people can get fluctuating prices from each of the markets but can only go to them at certain times

example a market on chodaku is offering 3 dollar an ivy but the one in llanfair is offering 1 dollar and ivy


you travel to chodaku and sell your ivy but after selling 50 bundles the market in chod drops they now offer you 1 dollar for ivy unlike the llanfair market who are now offering 3d ollar for ivy as no ones been selling them any Twisted Evil

i know it will mean a hell of a lot of travelling round but that should encourage younger chars to explore more and give more people better chances at getting equal prices for their hard work Twisted Evil
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soundless
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject:
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Brokyn wrote:
Maybe other creation systems should have some kind of supply/demand calculation factored into their payoffs?


that's quite okay. i'm happy making my very low amounts of cash in a non fluxing manner. Razz

i love the idea of commod markets being local and not globally priced, though. it would be cool to even make it so areas that certain commods don't grow pay more for them, while areas with a lot pass less (ie: Echak may not pay much for fire amber, but llanfair may).
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
that's quite okay. i'm happy making my very low amounts of cash in a non fluxing manner. Razz


Whether you're willing to come to terms with it or not, you're making significantly more money than anyone else in the game on a consistent basis (alchemy notwithstanding). If there's any system that still needs a nerf on values, it's tailoring.
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.
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Enverdi
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:59 am    Post subject:
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Yeah, non-alchemy creation prices are almost laughable compared to how much you can get for potions. Commodities are really the only source of actual income in the game. Perhaps a crashed market is what we should all consider the "norm" and anything higher is first-come first serve. As many of the GMs have stated, we continue to experience inflation...if this is a countermeasure, I see no issue with it.

However, this also creates problems on the lower tiers. With these frequent crashes, dramatic lowerings of cost...new people are taking it the hardest. Skins sell for crap, as does meat. The only other option for a new person is to have someone help you buy a couple things at the building on the edge of the world and go excavating, which also lacks any sort of impressive payout. The best way for a new person to earn money is through the commodity system and then through potions when they learn how to make them. It's how I made money before I stopped caring about alchemy.

So here's a proposal: Increase the payoff for alternative creation systems. Base *them* off a fluctuating market as well. That way people don't have another way to milk the system, but another way to make money. Techs can have nice payoffs for gadgets, artisans can sell their work...so on and so forth. Different markets for different people. That way, those who make potions won't have SO MUCH competition for the market.

On a side note: Beau, I imagine it's your avatar speaking, with some sort of California surfer drawl. Imagine yourself talking like that when you post and see if you don't giggle.
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soundless
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject:
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HR-Mickey wrote:
soundless wrote:
that's quite okay. i'm happy making my very low amounts of cash in a non fluxing manner. Razz


Whether you're willing to come to terms with it or not, you're making significantly more money than anyone else in the game on a consistent basis.


it was a joke. you know, to lighten the anger? i just didn't want to post a llama picture like will.

Enverdi wrote:
So here's a proposal: Increase the payoff for alternative creation systems. Base *them* off a fluctuating market as well. That way people don't have another way to milk the system, but another way to make money.


i'm against this idea because i'd rather not see people using multi accounts to work together and crash these, because that's a major reason commods are being taken to the shithole so often. many people have an alt (or two) who is helping them forage/mine for stuff, and that is resulting in potions being completed at too high a rate.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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