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Kit
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:51 am    Post subject: Part bins
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Can we have something similiar to the donation bin and to the new artisan chest? This one anyone'd be able to put in gadget parts, and only techs could take them out. To prevent abuse, a single tech could only remove a set number of parts an hour/day/set time frame. I know Riy's been doing gadgets non-stop and I've done a few recently since it's such a good source for mind fill and kucho's are starting to slow down that process. Just thought I'd ask.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:05 am    Post subject:
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My take on it is that *if* something like this is added, it needs to have a low capacity or be cleaned out regularly because the junk will mass up quick. I'm also not so sure this is a new-player-friendly type of thing by any means, it sounds like a tool for higher level techs -- techs who probably have ample means to get and store parts.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:17 am    Post subject:
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just as a sidenote, the artisan donation bin is really really ultra-newbie focused. noone over level 5 can take anything out.

it is meant to litterally be a place for someone to just put in the basic tools, not a massive amount of parts or anything.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:35 am    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
My take on it is that *if* something like this is added, it needs to have a low capacity or be cleaned out regularly because the junk will mass up quick. I'm also not so sure this is a new-player-friendly type of thing by any means, it sounds like a tool for higher level techs -- techs who probably have ample means to get and store parts.


Techs can do gadgets at level 10... At least, that's when Zach started being able to do it. And at level 15 he could make perfect gadgets. The donation bin at cc is cleaned out everyday, so this isn't much of a problem.

It's not meant as new player friendly at all, actually...it's meant as 'for techs that like gadgets' friendly... If, say, a tech can take out 5 items a day, that's not exactly unreasonable.

Getting parts at higher level is actually much harder than at lower level. Kit's parts come from my under 15th level characters on the second account. You just don't get much junk hunting kuchos.

It takes 8-10 parts per gadget. Which makes a place to have spare parts open for everyone really ideal. For artisans to make something it takes material (which when working with pelts can be several in a bundle I know), thread, and a sewing kit.

To make one communicator it takes a workroom, a lightbulb and battery for the floodlight, a hammer if the casing needs to be repaired, a special supply sack to repair all the other parts, and then:

casing
glass
lcd screen
chip
reciever
transmitter
circuitboard
switch

And to make it work it needs a battery and an integrity chip too. And let's not forget the 5 hours or so it takes to learn the comm schematic and the several hours it takes to memorize the repair manuals for each part. Not that any of that has anything to do with the need for a part receptical.

Parts use to be amazingly easy to find, but if you've listened to Riy the past few days, you'll realize that the need for a central place for people to put parts seems to be in demand. Of course, people COULD just put them in the donation bin. It'd just be nice to not have a coil and run down to the part bin and grab one. Making gadgets is more often frustrating than anything else....simply because of the lack of ability to snag parts.


Edit: Maybe the bin could only hold 10 of every part. 10 chips, 10 recievers...then it wouldn't be overloaded.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:37 pm    Post subject:
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if you want to compare gadget making to another crafting system, i think jewelry making is more apt.

here's the whole problem with gadget making, to me: it isn't clear if gadget making is meant to be a way for techs to make money by making stuff to sell to NPCs or if it is just meant to be a way for techs to sell things to/make things for the public.

if it is a system where the GMs would want techs to sit around making gadgets to sell the NPCs so they can make money, then the gadget system needs to better accomodate that kind of situation. as it is, parts are hard to find.

if it is a system where GMs want to let techs make uber-cool items that have great use and go beyond what a store can normally provide, then the level of stuff available is perfect if not a little bit too common still.

it's like cap-breaking backpacks and exceptional hides. when it first came out, mellie and i were the only two interested in making the backpacks, and we were willing to restrain ourselves from flooding the market. when the market started to get flooded, it was restricted to being artisan-only (but then also increased a bit).

now, making normal clothing in general is meant to be a way for artisans to make money, so the material for that is common and easily accessable. BUT, then there are the uber-type items like exceptional backpacks and aracki silk and so on, and those are kept rare because they're not meant to be NPC money-making-fodder, but things we sell to the public.

the same goes for what you can dig up at excavation sites. broken links are sorta easy to get if you try hard enough and they sell for a nice amount of money to NPCs. this, to me, shows that it's something that can be used as a money making tool with NPCs. but insignias don't sell well to NPCs, are pretty hard to get, and do an interesting thing. so that to me shows that it isn't a money making (NPC wise) tool.

if mistsilk, for example, ever comes out, then i'm sure that will be an ultra-rare thing that artisans can spin, weave, and make. it wouldn't be intended for being sold to the NPCs, but the public would surely want a peice of it.

so what i'm trying to get at is that if gadget parts are easy to come by, then gadgets as a whole will be less uber and unique and special. if gadget parts are rare and hard to come by, you'll have a better arguement for wanting to create gridguns that end up being remarkable from the get go, splatterguns that fire six shots as oppose to five, and so on. if it's hard to pull off, then the reward can be greater.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject:
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What about salvaging?
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:56 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
What about salvaging?


does salvaging depend on any skills and/or is it based on level like searching is?

i know when i did it, i didn't get much.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject:
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I'm not sure off hand, but a high level tech (the one's we're discussing as having difficulty getting parts) should have no problem salvaging.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
I'm not sure off hand, but a high level tech (the one's we're discussing as having difficulty getting parts) should have no problem salvaging.


As far as I know, salvaging is like searching. Jade and Kit can salvage the same sorta stuff...different professions, and somewhat different levels. It's not difficult finding things...but things like switchs and chips are hard to find. Drake did help a lot with that part frequency though. Going in the warehouse...well. It's about 20 levels below Kit. I'm not REALLY complaining. My idea for a part bin was mostly for Riy, who always seems to have problems finding parts. Even if there was a bin, I kinda doubt the people that don't already give him parts are going to drop em off in the bin. It's much easier throwing em away.

^.^ Oh well, it was a nice idea!
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:47 pm    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
so what i'm trying to get at is that if gadget parts are easy to come by, then gadgets as a whole will be less uber and unique and special. if gadget parts are rare and hard to come by, you'll have a better arguement for wanting to create gridguns that end up being remarkable from the get go, splatterguns that fire six shots as oppose to five, and so on. if it's hard to pull off, then the reward can be greater.



I've always wanted to think of gadgets as an IG way to make money...I want to make gadgets, get my mind full slowly, and sell em to Shavcire for money. I really am not interested in the retail value of them to other people in the game...but I'm tired of hunting all the time. So really, gadgets are a more techy sorta income...and I view it as I view tailoring when I play my artisan.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
So really, gadgets are a more techy sorta income...and I view it as I view tailoring when I play my artisan.


then (and i'm saying this as a player trying to think as a GM, so it has no validity at all), i'd expect less "does lots of cool stuff" gadgets coming out and more "mimics things stores can already do except they might look different or give a very minor boon" gadgets coming out.

then again, there might always be a mix where some formulas might need a unit that is in the R or UR hopper, but all the other parts are easily available.

but, once again, i'm saying that as a player and not someone who can make real choices on anything. i'm just semi-bored and discussing because it's fun to chat about this stuff. Wink
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With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:08 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
Kit wrote:
So really, gadgets are a more techy sorta income...and I view it as I view tailoring when I play my artisan.


then (and i'm saying this as a player trying to think as a GM, so it has no validity at all), i'd expect less "does lots of cool stuff" gadgets coming out and more "mimics things stores can already do except they might look different or give a very minor boon" gadgets coming out.

then again, there might always be a mix where some formulas might need a unit that is in the R or UR hopper, but all the other parts are easily available.

but, once again, i'm saying that as a player and not someone who can make real choices on anything. i'm just semi-bored and discussing because it's fun to chat about this stuff. Wink


I'd be more than okay with a lot of 'useless' gadgets coming out. Tech comms don't do a lot of cool stuff, you can just swap em around. And they come at a disadvantage because there's only two channels that they start with. But....yeah. If there were useless or nearly useless things that we could make like...Data scanners....or music players....that would ROCK.

Actually, I'm looking forward to the useless stuff now....I love the gadget system but as it is now finding parts and keeping everything memorized and having only three things to make....it's not as fun as it could be.
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RiyWeiko



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject:
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I agree with Kit, I am trying to find technician type ways to make experience. Technicians, as a profession are classed as non-combat. Gadget making is a tech way to gain experience, but the occurence of finding anything more than average or below average quality is very slim. Being 17th level, scavenging parts is not an option, it's a death-sentence. I am not trying to mass produce my gadgets to sell to NPC's I either offer them to the general public, or donate them to new players via Aerumna's "newbie bags". I don't understand how only being able to build 3 different types of gadgets, flashlights, communicators, (which are about on par with what the lowest priced comm shop comm as far as channels and etc. with the exception of choosing where it is worn) and droidlights, which are only good for a technician with a drone/droid, could cause for a mass of items being sold to NPC's. I just tried selling a near-perfect flashlight to the comm shop, and was offered $939. If I'm going to spend that much time building something, and only going to make that amount, I'm better off hunting, which I don't feel I should have to. And I know that someone is going to bring up foraging and mining, my reply is the same. I can spend 3 hours foraging, and make a few thousand, or hunt and make a few ten thousand. I guess my point is, I'm a tech, I'd like to be able to do tech-type things to gain my experience.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject:
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RiyWeiko wrote:
I agree with Kit, I am trying to find technician type ways to make experience. Technicians, as a profession are classed as non-combat. Gadget making is a tech way to gain experience, but the occurence of finding anything more than average or below average quality is very slim. Being 17th level, scavenging parts is not an option, it's a death-sentence. I am not trying to mass produce my gadgets to sell to NPC's I either offer them to the general public, or donate them to new players via Aerumna's "newbie bags". I don't understand how only being able to build 3 different types of gadgets, flashlights, communicators, (which are about on par with what the lowest priced comm shop comm as far as channels and etc. with the exception of choosing where it is worn) and droidlights, which are only good for a technician with a drone/droid, could cause for a mass of items being sold to NPC's. I just tried selling a near-perfect flashlight to the comm shop, and was offered $939. If I'm going to spend that much time building something, and only going to make that amount, I'm better off hunting, which I don't feel I should have to. And I know that someone is going to bring up foraging and mining, my reply is the same. I can spend 3 hours foraging, and make a few thousand, or hunt and make a few ten thousand. I guess my point is, I'm a tech, I'd like to be able to do tech-type things to gain my experience.


Shavcire pays pretty sweet prices for gadgets. And I feel the same as Riy. I don't want to hunt to get exp. I want to do tech things. And repairs are just too...based on other characters.
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject:
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does droid hacking grant exp?
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