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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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 Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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The only choice being made "for you" is that you can't farm low level easy kills forever and expect good loot. Beetles are level 35, and while they hit better than some of their similar level peers, they also hit weaker. They were ideal for Yaru. But you're well past them in ability now, and you should be fighting something else. There are a bunch of options before you, and more coming.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| HR-Trevor wrote: |
| The only choice being made "for you" is that you can't farm low level easy kills forever and expect good loot. Beetles are level 35, and while they hit better than some of their similar level peers, they also hit weaker. They were ideal for Yaru. But you're well past them in ability now, and you should be fighting something else. There are a bunch of options before you, and more coming. |
right now the 'at level' things for yaru, i think, are the cathedral paladins. the only downside is that they're good aligned. the nowbi aren't an option because they aren't under the engagement system yet, and yaru was never (in my mind) constructed to fight at melee (so he's at a huge disadvantage there). i did the big tank that took tons of blows and never had to dodge thing in DR, and i wanted the complete opposite this time around. a weak guy who fought very well at missle because he would never want to fight at close range.
i'm really hoping this doesn't come off as me kicking, screaming, and being upset that things are changing. i fully understand that mass killing tons of low level critters and getting a lot of URs that way isn't a good thing to have happen.
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
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HR-Marduk
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| soundless wrote: |
| yaru's very coordinated and perceptive, but not agile. he's good [or good enough] at doging melee, but isn't good at dodging missle. so, hunting things that attack at missle range isn't good for him. he's constructed in a manner that makes him a good missle range fighter. his weakness is melee or things that can hit him from a distance. that choice was self-made, obviously, and i have to deal with the fact that i can't hunt missle users that great, but i deal with it by taking avenues available that don't involve hunting things that are a constant threat to yaru. |
I may be mistaken, but I'm reading this as "I designed my character to be really good at killing things that can't fight back". (good at killing melee creatures with ranged weapons, abysmal at actually taking damage and defending from creatures with missile weapons)
While this is a perfectly legitimate character build, it's not something I would expect to last long while hunting alone. It would make a very nice Agent/Tracker PvP character, though.
The fact that about 90% of creatures are melee-only, low spawn, low hit-rate allows for basically risk-free hunting for hour after hour. This is something I'm actively setting out to change.
Dying is a part of combat.
This is part of my personal design philosophy; the rewards that cannot be reaped anywhere else in the game (ultra-rare items, gadget parts, other stuff that is yet to come) is intended to be offset by the fact that there is, in fact, a risk to it.
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HR-Marduk
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Xenoapollyon
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 193
Location: Somewhere boring.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what hopper the die is in, but I heart it was UR. Found it twice in less than an hour between chith and the fen, both way way under my level. I think with the introduction of new rares and UR's, its a good time to make some changes there to prevent that. Otherwise I could just drool out the side of my mouth, running a hunting script in chiths and empty the hopper in about a week based on my UR rate from that day. granted I got lucky finding it that many times that fast, but the point of the change is still there I think. Again though, I dont think trevor has yet to just smack someone down and say suck it up. I'm sure it will do the fluctuation thing like most other new systems. Starts up too hard, then bounces back and forth with feedback till its at a fair level.
As far as what I took from what trevor said as far as the perks for harder areas, It didnt seem that a level 60 critter at the top of the mountain would necessarily be "harder" than the level 60 at the bottom, but since you have to train more skills, theres te RP sense of danger. It is dangerous to climb a mountain, endure the cold, wing, whatnot. And that inherent added danger will be reflected in the treasure drop from the one at the top of the mountain.
Correct me if I misunderstood that.
Sean
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HR-Faith
OCD Grammar Perfectionist
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 964
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Xenoapollyon wrote: |
| I'm not sure what hopper the die is in, but I heart it was UR. |
You are correct.
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Counselor Faith Tempest
Medic Guru
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins --
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Daedalus
Local Pimp
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 380
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I just want to say, whatever changes are in place right now, suck. Hunting on level, to fill my mind, with max perception, a luck cord, the lucky trait, and a rune stone that helps me find more cash ... I can't find shit. Maybe one box and two piles of cash. So, are these things even working? I'd hate to see what I find without them.
I know you said you're going to change this around some, Trevor, but I just wanted to say that. And I'm not too thrilled with the way these up coming changes are sounding. I don't think very many people are going to like this, especially the ones that like to focus on skills other than combat ones, but still like to have a chance of getting good treasure.
What's the whole point of this, anyways? Making URs and Rs harder to find, that's okay. Reducing the effect of lucky-type things, that's fine too. The level disparity adjustments, I think, are just going to suck. I think this would be a better change for live since bonus items are going to be less common, right?
Whatever, though.
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Xenoapollyon
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 193
Location: Somewhere boring.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Okies thanks. Just thinking about if I had pulled that off after this change. Pulling two UR's in less than an hour. Not that I would mind, but I dont think powerhunting more than 50 levels under me is a fair way to pull that off, once the new UR's are out, would be really unbalancing I think. UR's are ultra rare for a reason, then tend to give obscene bonuses. two Ur's could giveme a total of +50 if I got the right ones.
If I pull every UR out of the hopper in a night its fine. But not if I do it at no risk to myself. Granted the new combat makes nowhere "no" risk, but thats not to say I couldnt go make dinner while sitting in the fen and have no worry that I'll be okay when I get back.
Sean
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SolitaryTurnip
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Your mom (burn)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Daedalus wrote: |
| I don't think very many people are going to like this, especially the ones that like to focus on skills other than combat ones, but still like to have a chance of getting good treasure. |
I don't think anyone was expecting an outpouring of love for this. Nobody's saying "yes, finally! Less treasure! I'm sick of getting rich easily!" The treasure system needed to be changed and it's being changed. |
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HR-Faith
OCD Grammar Perfectionist
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 964
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Xenoapollyon wrote: |
Okies thanks. Just thinking about if I had pulled that off after this change. Pulling two UR's in less than an hour. Not that I would mind, but I dont think powerhunting more than 50 levels under me is a fair way to pull that off, once the new UR's are out, would be really unbalancing I think. UR's are ultra rare for a reason, then tend to give obscene bonuses. two Ur's could giveme a total of +50 if I got the right ones.
If I pull every UR out of the hopper in a night its fine. But not if I do it at no risk to myself. Granted the new combat makes nowhere "no" risk, but thats not to say I couldnt go make dinner while sitting in the fen and have no worry that I'll be okay when I get back.
Sean
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Although I'm not the one making the changes, I can tell you that this was one of the problems with treasure. Ultra-rares were going out FAR too quickly. Ultra-rares should be ultra rare, not something you get at least 1 of just about every time you go hunting - especially by way underhunting at no real risk to yourself. This is a gameplay issue and was incredibly unbalancing.
Then there is also the issue of time for us spent making treasure when we could be working on systems. Filling an empty ultra-rare treasure system, log back in the next day and it is empty again is not a pretty sight.
As for those who are unhappy with the changes, please continue posting exact information on what you don't like about them (as opposed to just saying 'this sux'). Trevor is obviously listening and I'm sure is taking your findings into consideration.
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Counselor Faith Tempest
Medic Guru
hr-faith@haelrahv.com
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins --
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Kit
Cybertech Extraordinaire~
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 3071
Location: Currently cyberwiring your mind
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| HR-Marduk wrote: |
| I may be mistaken, but I'm reading this as "I designed my character to be really good at killing things that can't fight back". (good at killing melee creatures with ranged weapons, abysmal at actually taking damage and defending from creatures with missile weapons). |
I didn't design my character to hunt at all. However, if I want parts, and if I want cool items, I gotta hunt. I COULD just roll up a trooper or something, but that's no fun for me. I'm really glad more cash and loose stuff is falling. Coming up empty handed kill after kill was just really frustrating.
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Last edited by Kit on Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Daedalus
Local Pimp
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 380
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SolitaryTurnip wrote: |
| I don't think anyone was expecting an outpouring of love for this. Nobody's saying "yes, finally! Less treasure! I'm sick of getting rich easily!" The treasure system needed to be changed and it's being changed. |
I don't think is needs this drastic of a change.
I just like finding things, that's one of the reasons I like this game. You never know what you're going to find. I know me finding stuff isn't going to be completely impossible now, but it's really limiting my chances. And hunting isn't really that good of a way to get rich. Getting rich isn't even why I hunt, I hunt to find stuff. URs mainly, even if I can't use them. I've ended up giving away some of the better-end items I've found.
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| HR-Marduk wrote: |
(good at killing melee creatures with ranged weapons, abysmal at actually taking damage and defending from creatures with missile weapons)
While this is a perfectly legitimate character build, it's not something I would expect to last long while hunting alone. It would make a very nice Agent/Tracker PvP character, though.
The fact that about 90% of creatures are melee-only, low spawn, low hit-rate allows for basically risk-free hunting for hour after hour. This is something I'm actively setting out to change.
Dying is a part of combat.
This is part of my personal design philosophy; the rewards that cannot be reaped anywhere else in the game (ultra-rare items, gadget parts, other stuff that is yet to come) is intended to be offset by the fact that there is, in fact, a risk to it. |
i'm just not sure why 'attack from afar' is a bad choice for a combat build, while 'attack at melee and absorb tons of damage' or 'attack from hiding and never be seen' or 'attack with stunning attacks then real attacks' are valid choices.
even when hunting beetles, i was risking death if i got careless/reckless/burdened. they advanced quickly and if i was caught loading ammo or even unable to hold off enough in time, i'd be in danger.
i just like the idea of having more character build options available beyond 'what weapon will i use'. i like the idea of having tanks, speed hitters, stealth fighters, and so on. i want there to be advantages and disadvantages over playing each type of combat style. i'm sure you want that as well (heck, you made enough special attacks to show, in my mind, that you like the idea of someone doing more than attack attack attack).
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A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death. |
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Xenoapollyon
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 193
Location: Somewhere boring.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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As per the most recent announcement theres a gradual bonus as level increases.
Does this mean that a level 5 has a greater chance as a level1? Or does this only start to apply after 67th when combat skills (assuming combat class) would be capped, and the need to underhunt for survival alone might become more important?
Sean
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Daedalus:
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In the last hour I have increased drop rates across the board, lowered drop rates for underhunting, and increased drop rates for hunting near your level.
Given I just put these changes in and you've not had adequate time to test them, I can't imagine how your concerns have any basis at this point.
The fact is, if you hunt very close to your level, you will find that you can in fact find as much as 30-70% more loot each search than before I started modifying stuff an hour ago.
But... thanks for literally going off on us (me). Makes me feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside when I see posts like yours while I'm right in the middle of trying to do right by players like you. In this case, a player who even plays this game 100% for free.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy
Last edited by HR-Trevor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
As per the most recent announcement theres a gradual bonus as level increases.
Does this mean that a level 5 has a greater chance as a level1? Or does this only start to apply after 67th when combat skills (assuming combat class) would be capped, and the need to underhunt for survival alone might become more important?
Sean |
It starts to apply at level 40 and carries on to level 100.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
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