FAQ Log in
Search Profile
Memberlist Usergroups
Log in to check your private messages
Register
Jump To: Haelrahv Main Site | My Haelrahv Account | Haelrahv Play Page
Brokering and commision/tipping.
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic
The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Player-Created Polls » Brokering and commision/tipping.
View previous topic :: View next topic  

You ask a bureaucrat to broker for you and--
A bureaucrat agrees to broker 1000 units for $12000. In return for brokering they will keep $2000. Do you agree to this? (please type yes or no)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
A bureaucrat agrees to broker 1000 units for $12000. If you would like to place a tip please enter a percentage now. (please type a number between 0 and 100- (say person entered 10)) You are considering paying a bureaucrat $1200 for their services. Yes/No
45%
 45%  [ 11 ]
Leave the system as it is. I don't want any reminders about tipping.
54%
 54%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 24

Author Message
Kelasa



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 363

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:55 am    Post subject: Brokering and commision/tipping.
Reply with quote

Okay I'm curious. I have had this brought up no less the 6 times in the last month as that bureaucrats should get paid automatically for making a brokerage transaction. And surprisingly it wasn't only bureaucrats that said it to me. Well Rikiar and I came up with a couple different solutions so here's a poll to satisfy my curiousity. Please note, that no matter how this poll turns out there most likely will not be any changes made anytime soon.

In the situation for the question above, we are going to assume that the commodity being brokered is at 10 and unrefined, and the brokers bonus percent is 20%.

The first option shows what would happen if the bureaucrat was to get their bonus straight off, and the seller get the base price. What would be the point of using a bureaucrat then? I can think of two reasons on the current system. Being able to sell at once, and keeping the price from dropping on you as you sell a higher number of bundles.

The second option asks you if you would like to place a percentage tip. This option is very nice because you can decide how much you want to tip and don't have to do the math yourself. However it does require more commands put in.

The third option is pretty much self explanatory by leaving the system as it is.
_________________
One must have knowledge beyond learning, and wisdom beyond understanding to say what can or cannot be.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:02 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

when I first started playing Haelrahv, I tried tipping brokers.

They all got mad. :p
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
SteveH999



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 97
Location: There is currently 1 player in the world of Haelrahv.

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:12 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

No. I always, always, always, ALWAYS tip for services rendered. If I don't have money, I go and get it. But being forced or reminded is not a TIP, it's a FEE.

First of all, I feel MUCH better tipping on my own. It's of my own accord, I like being nice, and I don't like being forced into it. Second, while it's recommended and I make a point to do it, a tip is a BONUS. If I feel I'm not well treated in services rendered, I can withhold a tip, and not use the services of the person in the future. If tips were MANDATORY, they'd be included in the price of whatever service was provided, be it hair cuts, waitering, or brokering commodities.

I'm sorry. I appreciate what you're trying to do, and I understand, and I always tip, but no.

EDIT: I forgot to mention. Being reminded, whether it be mechanics or friendly suggestion makes my desire to tip CONSIDERABLY LESS than if I do it of my own accord.
_________________
You are Normal And Boring Sorlan Freelance, a Human.


Last edited by SteveH999 on Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
Location: Not Colorado

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:13 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I tend to favor something more like #1, but giving the Bureaucrat the option to receive less than what is added by their bonus. Either percentagewise (0-20) or as a dollar amount ($0-2000).

Which means I didn't vote since I don't really agree with any of the choices.
_________________
** The phrase "break a leg" just wasn't ambitious enough for Mellie Knight. [8:31 pm]
** Mellie Knight was soundly defeated by Aesal Anari-Idia in the Zgedhi Gkenrzeg Rav! [8:31 pm]


Last edited by Tylen on Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
Location: Not Colorado

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:15 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

soundless wrote:
when I first started playing Haelrahv, I tried tipping brokers.

They all got mad. :p


That was your Bureaucrat 30 day free trial.

SteveH999 wrote:
EDIT: I forgot to mention. Being reminded, whether it be mechanics or friendly suggestion makes my desire to tip CONSIDERABLY LESS than if I do it of my own accord.


That's the great thing about a fee, you don't have to tip.
_________________
** The phrase "break a leg" just wasn't ambitious enough for Mellie Knight. [8:31 pm]
** Mellie Knight was soundly defeated by Aesal Anari-Idia in the Zgedhi Gkenrzeg Rav! [8:31 pm]
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:19 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Tylen wrote:
soundless wrote:
when I first started playing Haelrahv, I tried tipping brokers.

They all got mad. :p


That was your Bureaucrat 30 day free trial.


Must be well-played to have a title in 30 days.

Overall, in this beta, people don't do things for money. Artisans craft for free, bureaucrats broker for free, medics heal for free, so on.

Of course, this is based on my own experiences.
_________________
A bright-eyed Thekko Ku Kalla dressed in a dapper sailor suit takes to flight and careers through the air toward the Modan Kucho and slams into him!
With a high-pitched cry, The Modan Kucho collapses in death.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Kelasa



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 363

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:21 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I personally don't accept tips from new players and I explain to them that when they get set up in the game, weapons, armor, tools, clothing and such that I'd be willing to accept them, but until then they need the money more then I do.

As I said when I made this poll I'm mostly curious, but if you think about it a true broker would charge a flat percent to trade in commodities or stocks for you which is why they work off of commision. That is why the title is Commision/Tipping.

Now with the second option you do have a choice to type 0 for no tip.

I would like to see a confirmation line for a brokerage in any event whether they change the system or not, but I've already spoken to Rikiar about that.
_________________
One must have knowledge beyond learning, and wisdom beyond understanding to say what can or cannot be.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
SteveH999



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 97
Location: There is currently 1 player in the world of Haelrahv.

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:22 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Tylen wrote:
That's the great thing about a fee, you don't have to tip.

With a fee, I can't ask for my money back if someone does a shitty job.
_________________
You are Normal And Boring Sorlan Freelance, a Human.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
Location: Not Colorado

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:28 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

SteveH999 wrote:
With a fee, I can't ask for my money back if someone does a shitty job.


Why not?

Also, define "shitty job." A Bureaucrat will definitely get you more money than you could get by yourself.
_________________
** The phrase "break a leg" just wasn't ambitious enough for Mellie Knight. [8:31 pm]
** Mellie Knight was soundly defeated by Aesal Anari-Idia in the Zgedhi Gkenrzeg Rav! [8:31 pm]
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SteveH999



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 97
Location: There is currently 1 player in the world of Haelrahv.

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:41 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I mean in general.

And yes, all the brokers I've used so far have undoubtedly gotten me more money for my items than I could have myself. So I happily tip them.
_________________
You are Normal And Boring Sorlan Freelance, a Human.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Tylen
Alpha Antifemale


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
Location: Not Colorado

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:54 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

SteveH999 wrote:
I mean in general.

And yes, all the brokers I've used so far have undoubtedly gotten me more money for my items than I could have myself. So I happily tip them.


Alright, then what's your problem with a fee? I hate to bring up a RL comparison (and I'm not basing my opinion on it either), but would you ever suggest to a stock broker (do they still have those?) that they just accept tips? And they're not even guaranteed to make you money.
_________________
** The phrase "break a leg" just wasn't ambitious enough for Mellie Knight. [8:31 pm]
** Mellie Knight was soundly defeated by Aesal Anari-Idia in the Zgedhi Gkenrzeg Rav! [8:31 pm]
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SteveH999



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 97
Location: There is currently 1 player in the world of Haelrahv.

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Alrighty, let's use the real world example.

Any broker that I would use would be attached to a firm. He has the name and reputation of that firm backing him, and that commission is his livelyhood. Brokers are currently acting on their own for their own benefit, if you count the experience (yes, indirectly the benefit of others as well). I won't say that the experience shouldn't be your whole compensation, which is one of the reasons I'm happy to tip. But on the other hand, you're already not doing it for nothing.

If Brokers were to open up a firm that charged a small fee, and the firm's policy were to charge a small fee, yes I would probably pay the fee if those were the brokers I wanted to do business with. But not individuals at this time, no.

The "forced tipping" thing is something I personally feel very strongly about. Like I said, I tip freely and under the proper circumstances I understand paying a fee. But you will not get me to change my mind.

Also, please disregard any animosity you may feel in my posts about this topic. It's directed at the issue, not at anyone talking.
_________________
You are Normal And Boring Sorlan Freelance, a Human.
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
HR-Trevor
Boss Type Guy


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 6683
Location: Louisville, KY

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:02 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

While I think tipping is something people should do, for services rendered, I don't see every service you can think of having this "tip reminder" which gives Bureaucrats what is, in my opinion, an unfair advantage or perk.
_________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato

-- Trevor Rage / Rich Mondy
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
winddancer
Hah! In your dreams, bub!


Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 275

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:25 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

I don't like forcing people to tip, and I don't like automatic money set asides. I will never support that.

However:

I don't like the system as it stands. I think that the brokering should not be just a matter of


Someone is requesting that you provide brokering services. Do you wish to do so?

>yes

You broker on behalf of someone and sell 735 units for a total of $10805.


I think there should be one more step for the broker where they can see how much is GOING to be brokered and for how much, so that:
A) they can ask for a payment up front if they want to be paid for that amount of units sold. AND/OR
B) warn the customer that the market has crashed, because some people keep forgetting to check the ticker.

Also, I DO mind that some people seem to be under the impression that I'm Brokering for MY own good.

If I feel I'm not well treated in services rendered, I can withhold a tip, and not use the services of the person in the future.

(please bear in mind that while this line is being quoted, it is not the person who wrote this that the rest of this response is directed to. It's the attitude)

Excuse me?!? I am NOT your waitress. I am not earning ANY money on the side because I'm brokering for you. I am earning no money on the side whatsoever when I broker for people. Any money I get is what each person decides to tip me...or NOT tip me.

My livelihood does not depend on your sale. In fact, if I DID depend on brokering alone to make me money, I would most likely starve, because at least a third of the people I broker for don't ever bother to tip, another third don't even tip enough for me to sneeze with.

I have a group of wonderful customers who tip me above and beyond what is expected. These are the few customers who are great because it's obvious they aren't being cheap about my services.

And by tipping, I don't mean even money. I mean by doing nice things for me, like collecting branches for my fire, making me potions or helping me out when I am in a tight spot. THESE are the people who I never ever begrudge my time for and would almost always have time for to help them out. (Unless i'm in the middle of my law work)

I don't broker for money. If I did, I would never ever broker. I broker because I CARE about the people and want to help them out. But there is a difference between caring about people and caring about people being cheap.

When I'm faced with the kind of attitude like I should be GRATEFUL that people are even letting me broker for them....well, I get mad. Very mad.

I can easily gain experience AND make much MORE money by doing my own thing. In fact, more often than not, my potions, my potential time and my potential money are the things going down the drain because people usually don't broker in groups. I stand around wasting half an hour's worth of potions because I'm waiting for people to finish what they're doing and come broker.

To people who want to argue by saying "Hey, you get experience for brokering. That should be enough..."

Great. You get experience for foraging and hunting. Give me the units and treasures you find then. You obviously don't need them.

It peeves me that people think THEY're the ones doing me some sort of favor and that tipping is something I should be grovelling in gratitude to get.

Sorry, but my experience and livelihood is not to live and die by the ticker.

Belethe
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message
Josie
Everyone wants to be me!


Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 499
Location: Where the hell am i?

 Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:30 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

since i've played both a crat and a non-crat i spose i can see both sides of the situation here. However, I do not feel like a crat should have a fee taken out of the persons items for brokering it. If that happens your gonna see ALOT of market crashes because I for one won't broker *shrug* I know how much exp you get brokering and from my own experience, usually a full mortar or two fills the mind up. I know some crats HATE tips and even hunt you down if you give them money *grunts at Erekai* I always tip, its just something I do. But dont force me to give you my money or I just wont do it. I guess I'm stubborn that way.


~jo
_________________
Neifl Cacambo - "Anyone have change for a tampon?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>whack trevor
You forcefully swing your fluffy pillow at Trevor Rage and hit him on the rear sending feathers flying everywhere!
Your swing knocked Trevor Rage down!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Back to top »
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Player-Created Polls » Brokering and commision/tipping.
Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Top Index




Solaris phpBB theme/template by Jakob Persson
Copyright © Jakob Persson 2003



Powered by phpBB 2.0.22 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group