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Tugor
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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: weather
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Will there be weather in 'live'? snow, hail, rain, etc.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:59 am    Post subject:
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Yes!
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SolitaryTurnip



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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:13 pm    Post subject:
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Are we going to be directly affected by it (more than just instruments breaking if it rains)? Like, could we have huge hail that could actually cause hp damage, or get struck by lightning, or have a better chance for knockdowns when it rains, or limited mobility in snow?

That'd be cool. But it'd probably also be annoying and painful for the server. It'd be cool, though.
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Downtweak



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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:21 pm    Post subject:
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Are we going to be directly affected by it (more than just instruments breaking if it rains)? Like, could we have huge hail that could actually cause hp damage, or get struck by lightning, or have a better chance for knockdowns when it rains, or limited mobility in snow?


I've always wanted hooks in the combat system for weather effects, which shouldn't be TOO far fetched here, as there's already a system in place to modify combat based on light conditions.

Physical damage from hail and lightning are too far, but things like increased RT in hail, snow/fog-blindness, loss of balance in rain/ice, increased stamina recovery on a perfect day, etc. would make combat more dynamic and interesting.

And there's the possibility for it to effect other systems, inability to track during a windstorm, only being able to find certain forageables at the right season/weather (waiting 6 months to sell that bundle of X that only grows in the winter would make the market more fun), difficulty climbing, swimming, or rowing based on weather...
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject:
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A lot of that is stuff I'd love to do. The combat aspect of it is not only something we wil do, but actually, something I had planned to do for Modus and had partially completed. If and when Modus Operandi does build a weather system, I did them the favor of writing most of the system for them.
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Haidee
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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:17 pm    Post subject:
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Ooh yeah and if it rains you get all soaked unless you have a raincoat or an umbrella or something. And maybe wearing appropriate clothing would be implemented. Like if you wore a swim suit in winter you limbs start going numb, or if you wear a parka in the summer you can get heat stroke. Just add it without telling anyone and let the fun ensue!
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HR-Hunter



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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject:
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Like if you wore a swim suit in winter you limbs start going numb, or if you wear a parka in the summer you can get heat stroke.


I was actually hoping we could impliment this, though we'll have to see how feasable it is once it's all set up in live.
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tygerwulf
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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:28 am    Post subject:
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Haidee wrote:
And maybe wearing appropriate clothing would be implemented. Like if you wore a swim suit in winter you limbs start going numb, or if you wear a parka in the summer you can get heat stroke.


Well that would just suck, I'd be having heat strokes in winter.
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Ponderer



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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:05 am    Post subject:
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An environmental sensitivity system:

I think such an idea would be most enjoyable! And just in case it does get done, let me toss a few ideas I might have on the matter.

Driving and vehicular combat (if any) being affected by weather conditions. (Either by a straight skill check or perhaps even deeper, I.E. - someone used to driving in snow (and thus has driven in it often) having an advantage against someone who is not)

Colds, flu's, sunburns, etc - I'm still outlining a health and wellness model that I would like to present once i'm confident the suggestion might add more depth than it would be an interferance to general enjoyment, but this part I think might be solid so I'll suggest it.

I think it might be nice if health extended beyond simply damage and wounds. Someone in the sun too long might get sunburn, someone who went swimming in winter and didn't dry off gets pneumonia, etc. The ailments could be easily cured at an emergency room or by someone properly trained, but depending on the ailment, they may be contagious until they do.

Why - I think this system will help assist world depth and roleplay (you might hear stories about how someone lost track of time gabbing on the beach and got sunburned so badly that they had to call a medic, not to mention that such effects are a reminder of the current situation of the world, etc), I believe this will add depth to a medics work, from treatment to innoculation, and I believe this could give a new weapon to an agents arsenal, engineered pathogens.

Pathogens - Disease treatment and control I won't go into, suffice it to say that if we had a job system I think such a position would be a good high level medic career, and that tracking and treatment of viruses could add a sense of 'frontier' areas (with more dangerous pathogens around that one should be careful for if lacking high vitality) and 'sterile' areas (more carefully monitored and 'safer' areas in terms of virus and disease)
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Xice



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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject:
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Ponderer wrote:
An environmental sensitivity system:

I think such an idea would be most enjoyable! And just in case it does get done, let me toss a few ideas I might have on the matter.

Driving and vehicular combat (if any) being affected by weather conditions. (Either by a straight skill check or perhaps even deeper, I.E. - someone used to driving in snow (and thus has driven in it often) having an advantage against someone who is not)

Colds, flu's, sunburns, etc - I'm still outlining a health and wellness model that I would like to present once i'm confident the suggestion might add more depth than it would be an interferance to general enjoyment, but this part I think might be solid so I'll suggest it.

I think it might be nice if health extended beyond simply damage and wounds. Someone in the sun too long might get sunburn, someone who went swimming in winter and didn't dry off gets pneumonia, etc. The ailments could be easily cured at an emergency room or by someone properly trained, but depending on the ailment, they may be contagious until they do.

Why - I think this system will help assist world depth and roleplay (you might hear stories about how someone lost track of time gabbing on the beach and got sunburned so badly that they had to call a medic, not to mention that such effects are a reminder of the current situation of the world, etc), I believe this will add depth to a medics work, from treatment to innoculation, and I believe this could give a new weapon to an agents arsenal, engineered pathogens.

Pathogens - Disease treatment and control I won't go into, suffice it to say that if we had a job system I think such a position would be a good high level medic career, and that tracking and treatment of viruses could add a sense of 'frontier' areas (with more dangerous pathogens around that one should be careful for if lacking high vitality) and 'sterile' areas (more carefully monitored and 'safer' areas in terms of virus and disease)


Although I like you ideas I'm pretty sure most of this would be a huge effort to code. Just for a sunburn you'd have to track weather, time exposed to sun vs. clothing individual was wearing. Checking clothing alone for every player in the game even staggered would cause lag. Its a huge amount of processing especially when you have people like Tyger around wearing enough items to scroll an entire screen at least once. That's just my thoughts on it though. I do like the idea of diseases but not sure how you would introduce them. Would they be a blood born pathogen? Would you be infected hunting certain creatures if you and the creature were both wounded? How badly would this effect vit? If its contagious what amount of time would you need to be around an infected victim in order to become contaiminated? Would there be carriers that had the virus but not the illness? Would your ability to be infected be based on Vit? There are many issues that might be involved in illnesses the least of which is that if they do actually health damage a lot of people just starting could be killed before they had any idea that they could even be infected.

Not trying to downplay your ideas at all. I think they are great. Just wanted to add in some possible scenarios that will have to be thought through before I think it would be a feasible thing to introduce into the game enviornment.
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SteveH999



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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject:
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On one hand, I enjoyed reading your ideas. On the other hand, at some level we're all the heros and adventurers of our land, and heros don't catch colds and get sunburned. Well, at least heros worth reading about. It would definitely add realism, but it seems like the inconvenient kind.
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Tylen
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:16 pm    Post subject:
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SteveH999 wrote:
On one hand, I enjoyed reading your ideas. On the other hand, at some level we're all the heros and adventurers of our land, and heros don't catch colds and get sunburned. Well, at least heros worth reading about. It would definitely add realism, but it seems like the inconvenient kind.


Who said we're supposed to be heros?
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Ponderer



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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:48 pm    Post subject:
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Although I like you ideas I'm pretty sure most of this would be a huge effort to code. Just for a sunburn you'd have to track weather, time exposed to sun vs. clothing individual was wearing.


That is one way to do it. And any new feature would require calculation at some point, but it could be mitigated. Perhaps checking the character once per login to see how they are covered, and then only rechecking 60 seconds after clothing is changed. There is, i'm sure, a way to get it done, but your point is absolutely right. Will it add enough to the world to be worth the effort is one major question.

Quote:
I do like the idea of diseases but not sure how you would introduce them. Would they be a blood born pathogen? Would you be infected hunting certain creatures if you and the creature were both wounded? How badly would this effect vit? If its contagious what amount of time would you need to be around an infected victim in order to become contaiminated? Would there be carriers that had the virus but not the illness? Would your ability to be infected be based on Vit? There are many issues that might be involved in illnesses the least of which is that if they do actually health damage a lot of people just starting could be killed before they had any idea that they could even be infected.


The pathogen idea was not intended to be limited to one kind of pathogen, with potentially different means of infection and spread, from airborne viruses to those transmitted by bodily fluids.

Pathogens and vitality - I was thinking that vitality should play some part in the resistance of infection and disease, and the morbidity rate thereof.

New player death - I actually put this concern slightly higher than the least. But this is partly why I mentioned that some places would be disease controlled and others would not have as great an amount of protection. A new player would likely come into a safer environment free from disease, where such concerns are still distant to him.

Being killed without knowing you've been infected - Though i'm sure there are pathogens without significant symptoms, even dangerous ones, I would not suggest this. I think anyone infected should show symptoms to others or to themselves, to give them indication that they should seek treatment.

Health damaging pathogens - They can kill, so I can imagine a few nasty buggars doing so, but I'd be loathe to make that the norm for if it were, there would be nothing but a risk of open contagion to seperate it from poisons. I actually intended the average pathogen in the game to be less dangerous than the flu, it can slow you down until you get it cured but what you will encounter among non-engineered disease and viruses would be far from life threatening.

Quote:
Not trying to downplay your ideas at all. I think they are great. Just wanted to add in some possible scenarios that will have to be thought through before I think it would be a feasible thing to introduce into the game enviornment.


And you did with good reason! Now you know why I didn't want to go into it fully. Smile But since we're at that road I'm also going to mention here what you mentioned about colds and sunburns, WOULD it be worth the effort, and why? Not that I don't want to discuss it, in fact I'd be glad to, but in the end, would we be wasting our time for something the developers couldn't use to make the game, overall, more immersive and enjoyable. What do you think?

Realism alone, I don't think, can justify its existance being that this is not a simulation game, but can pathogens add dimension to the game enough to be worth the effort, AND will its existance be more of a help to the world (like needing telepathy or communicators rather than being able to send messages to anyone around the world) than it would be an annoyance. Should natural pathogens be removed and only engineered ones exist, if so, is there difference enough between them and poisons to justify their existance?

I'm still loathe to touch any more of my health and wellness model with a ten foot pole unless people are curious. BUT, I think it comes down to this.

I think pathogens can have a unique place away and apart from poisons due to natural occurance and different methods of introduction to the body. I think that treatment and control of those pathogens could add interest and color to a medics career. But I still cannot say currently whether or not those reasons justify that poor mercenary catching the flu. Smile

Quote:
On the other hand, at some level we're all the heros and adventurers of our land, and heros don't catch colds and get sunburned. Well, at least heros worth reading about.


This is an argument against weakness, I think. And that's a bit of a tough thing to stand against. If you say at some level we're all heroes, what level? If we are all heroes, what hero has ever had to forage herbs and sell them to get his ray gun? What hero ever had to go to the emergency room because of all their little cuts and bruises, or ask around town for someone to fix their high tech thingamabobs because they broke down? (The Tick rules)

Me, I don't mind my character having weakness that a 'hero' might not, but your point is well taken, will the added realism be worth the added inconvenience and why?
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SolitaryTurnip



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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:03 pm    Post subject:
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Tylen wrote:
Who said we're supposed to be heros?


Someone in some thread a long time ago about how it's weird that everyone knows everybody's name without ever having been introduced. Well, maybe they didn't outright say it, I can't remember, but it was something along those lines.
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SteveH999



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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:22 pm    Post subject:
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Tylen wrote:
Who said we're supposed to be heros?

I thoroughly beg your pardon. Heros and villans. Famous or notorious would probably have been more proper.
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