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Hardcoded Item Restrictions
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HR-Mickey
Cloverfield Monster


Joined: 24 Nov 2002
Posts: 1844
Location: I've Got No 'billy

 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: Hardcoded Item Restrictions
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This topic is probably better served here than stranded out in the Performer folder. I don't appear to be smart enough to actually register a poll, so feel free to sound off on item restrictions that are hardcoded in. This includes, but isn't limited to, profession restrictions as well as other factors like level, skill minimum, even gender.

Discuss.
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.


Last edited by HR-Mickey on Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tygerwulf
Teh Pink Assassin.


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
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Location: Hiding right behind you, Don't look!

 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:13 pm    Post subject:
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*Glances around the topic*

Topic? What topic?
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HR-Mickey
Cloverfield Monster


Joined: 24 Nov 2002
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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:15 pm    Post subject:
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Tygerwulf,

By the time you read this, you'll probably be dead.
_________________
Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.
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ethrstorm
Riddle-De-Dum


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 265
Location: Artificial trees in an artificial land.

 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:18 pm    Post subject:
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lol
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tygerwulf
Teh Pink Assassin.


Joined: 06 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:20 pm    Post subject:
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Damn, how'd you know? Yer supposed to be a performer, not a psionic, geeze.
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An elderly librarian says, "I don't know much about that, I'm afraid."
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ethrstorm
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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:24 pm    Post subject:
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those gypsies have some strange powers
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tygerwulf
Teh Pink Assassin.


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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject:
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Anyway, to get on the topic, hardcoded? There's stuff that only certain people can use? The only things I knew about were the new race weapons, or are they just based from that race, but everyone can use them?
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SolitaryTurnip



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject:
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To answer Tylen's question here...

Quote:
You say you're in favor of profession-only stuff, but haven't given any reasoning for this belief. Do you have any?


Yeah, I do, but my reasons are a lot like Mickey's.

I think of profession-only items as being similar to profession-only skills. Plus, things like this add to the diferences between professions. Instead of being "mages get a bonus to spellcasting and stuff," they also might only be able to use special magey alchemy items (stirring rods or something), or maybe certain weapons. Also, what Mickey said. And I just like them *shrugs*

Now, for an on-topic post. For items that are have hardcoded restrictions based on level and skill minimum... I think it's a good idea, because it's realistic. If you're not very skilled with guns, you're not going to purchase some high-powered semi-auto thingy as your first gun. I think it'd also be a good idea to have some items add a penalty to your skill if you use them when you're not good enough. If you're not very skilled in music, and you try to play something really complex and tricky on some crazy instrument, you're going to sound worse than if you tried to play an ocarina or something.
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ethrstorm
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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:47 pm    Post subject:
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i believe they can be used by anyone i'm basing this on the old race weapons that are circulating. the hardcoding on the items that are to be profession used in a way yeah i'm all for it the holy grail like thing that no matter how hard you try you can never get it cause you're not the right profession. The whole grase is greener on the otherside. on the other hand naw that stinks. What if i were a psi and wanted to pick up musical instruments and only the most rare looking ones would do yeah i'd be in bad shape or wanted that spiffy other profession stuff. so yeah i'm undecided. your unhelpful tour guid
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Downtweak



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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:52 pm    Post subject:
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It keeps people like me from hording every cool item, using them all at once, and then mocking the masses for their lack of ub3r l007.
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Tylen
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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: Hardcoded Item Restrictions
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HR-Mickey wrote:
This topic is probably better served here than stranded out in the Performer folder. I don't appear to be smart enough to actually register a poll, so feel free to sound off on item restrictions that are hardcoded in. This includes, but isn't limited to, profession restrictions as well as other factors like level, skill minimum, even gender.

Discuss.


Hm skill is the only one of those that I would agree to having a hardcoded restriction for.
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Hardcoded Item Restrictions
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Tylen wrote:
Hm skill is the only one of those that I would agree to having a hardcoded restriction for.


Reasoning works both ways. So, why?
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.
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Tylen
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 1192
Location: Not Colorado

 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Hardcoded Item Restrictions
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HR-Mickey wrote:
Reasoning works both ways. So, why?


Ok well I have several thoughts on this, but unfortunately no easy way to organize them. So I'm probably just going to ramble.

First, we do have a skill-based game, where apparently everyone is free to train any skill they want. What's keeping Joe the level 100 Janitor from using his 200 Electronics/Medicine/Research skill to revive someone with a cardiostimulator?

No, it's not magic! We're talking techno here. Does it somehow check his thumbprint and cross-reference it with the list of licensed professional Medics before operating? You'd think people would get tired of saying, "it works that way because it's magic," which is just synonymous with, "I don't feel like coming up with a better explanation." Basically we have a game with openly trainable skills, but no guarantee that you'll be able to use the skills even if you do train them.

I think what makes it worse is that it (restricting by profession) is arbitrarily and unevenly applied. There can be a total restriction (cardiostimulators), partial (cyber repair), or none at all (tailoring). Then we have another type of partial restriction related to bonuses (Mickey's special instruments). And then we're looking at the possibility of restrictions by character (for quest items... I'm not sure how that will be explained... probably by 'magic'). I suppose we're lucky to sometimes get explanations for why things work the way they do, but usually they just end up that way due to the whim of the GM who made the system.

I think the last thing I wanted to comment on is the process of making each profession desirable to have around. This is certainly something we don't have so far. There isn't a single profession that would be missed if it were to be completely removed. No one needs anyone (particularly notice the lack of dedicated Artisans and Bureaucrats).

Profession-restricted items isn't going to do much to change this. If I find something I can't use, sure maybe I can trade it to someone but after that I have no incentive to interact with them ever again and we're right back where we started.

And I don't buy the argument that we're trying to make professions more distinct when yet another one just got a teleportation ability.
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** The phrase "break a leg" just wasn't ambitious enough for Mellie Knight. [8:31 pm]
** Mellie Knight was soundly defeated by Aesal Anari-Idia in the Zgedhi Gkenrzeg Rav! [8:31 pm]
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:37 am    Post subject:
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If you look at the methods of teleportation, they are actually quite unique and with a larger world this would be even more obvious.

Mage teleports go to a large selection of areas, but not Jareya and there would be other future exclusions.

Tracker teleports go to only a few specific areas, but the Jareya one makes it ever so useful. Tracker teleports tend to go to very rural areas as opposed to Mage teleports which go to cities or places very close to cities.

Psi teleports can essentially go anywhere they've been before but it's self-only, so no group benefit.

I don't say any of this to underscore what you've said in your other points... points I might address later... but I cannot agree with the notion that these teleports cause the professions involved to be indistinct.
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HR-Mickey
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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:48 am    Post subject:
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If anyone's painfully aware of the desirability of support professions, it's me. Besides my own PC, I can think of two or three other Performer characters off the top of my head that stick by the profession. Obviously, the Performer can't compare to triple-training pulse weapons and shield use and blowing the head off the Ruga Shliss thirty levels early, so I've tried to offset it by adding a few things that make the Performer glad they chose Performer. What I got instead were some people using a game mechanic loophole to swipe those items from someone that might happily use them with any recurring frequency.
Conversely, if we were to lockstep ourselves in realism, I vote for no bonuses on any item, at all, ever. Much to my dismay, I've yet to find a guitar in the real world that makes me a better musician, or a deep-fryer that makes my girl cook (even) better food.
The Performer teleport, incidentally, teleports you to Performer-ish areas. It's also extremely focus-expensive, requires a MUCH higher level than any other teleportation ability (not withstanding that I recently lowered the minimum for single-person teleportation by 45 skill points, and still only two performers qualify).
At present, we're talking five items, each of which gives a +1 to Charisma and +2 to its related performance skill; sort of meager, when you consider the crateload of +10 rifles and +10 stealth boots and sausage griddles that add +6 to strength floating around.

Please bear in mind that I'm not trying to come across belligerently... but I can't see any rationalizing in opposition to restrictions that don't boil down to, "If they can have it, why can't I?"
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Mickey Brunner

To make a long story short, don't tell it.

I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs.
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