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Stat Points - Poll One
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The overall costs to train stats are...
Too high!
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
High
54%
 54%  [ 17 ]
Perfect
22%
 22%  [ 7 ]
Low
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Too low!
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 31

Author Message
Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:47 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
It's about on par with MO, and not far from Simu games in general


Fair enough Smile

Quote:
you can't actually make this kind of calculation. Mostly because there is a level cap, 100. After 100 you can raise skills and stats without any caps, but you also only get stat and skill points from draining, not leveling too, since you no longer level.


Good point. Revising the calculations makes it just under 1184 days to reach "max" stats (assuming you train each stat up to the original caps before training higher) at constant drain, or about 16.67 years for the "average" gamer in the previous scenario.

In case anyone is curious how I got these figures or wants to pick apart my math, here it is:

12022 stat points required to "max".

3,000,000 experience for level 100 wil take 206 days constant drain, or a little under 3 years for the "average" gamer.

By level 100 you will have gained 5000 stat training points, leaving 7022.

It takes 200 minutes to drain enough experience to gain 1 stat point, making it about 975.28 days constant drain, or about 13.74 years for the "average" gamer to pick up the remaining points necessary to "max".

Not too bad up to level 100, but you might want to think about lowering the stat costs after that, or put in another way to gain training points Smile

~Dag
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:29 pm    Post subject:
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Hmm, your calculations are off, Dag.

First of all, how are you defining "max"? The racial cap, or 100? Also, you get a stat training point every 1200 exp, not 2000, which is 120 minutes not 200.

Still here's a blatant problem. Here's the cost of each race to hit their racial maxes, completely overlooking profession stuff which only affects your base stat:

Alteri: 14134
Darju : 14257
Eolai : 14212
Human : 14304
Jaddan: 14184

That's because of how the diminishing returns formula works. We may do away with that entirely and just alter things so every point of say strength costs the same for your race, whether you're going from 9 to 10 strength or 99 to 100.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:03 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
...every point of say strength costs the same for your race...


I really like that idea. For the races with +3 penalties, stats start off with a whopping 16 Stat Training Point cost. I can only imagine how much it'd cost when you start reaching the "max" of that stat (80, I think?).

--William
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:40 pm    Post subject:
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A +3 cost mod would return a max stat of 70. For an Alteri, the strength cost from 69 to 70 is 31 points.
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Brokyn
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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:58 pm    Post subject:
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See how mean you are to us? Crying or Very sad Well, those of us who were "smart" enough to become Alteri?

--William
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Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 8:30 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
First of all, how are you defining "max"? The racial cap, or 100?


I was using the racial caps for Jaddan, since this is what started the whole thing and I've a vested interest in this particular data Wink

Quote:
Also, you get a stat training point every 1200 exp, not 2000, which is 120 minutes not 200.


Yeah, I knew that.. my bad. Had skill training on the brain today and got stuck on 2000. I know I'm not perfect, and I'm not afraid to admit I make mistakes, that's why I put it up for fresh eyes to look at.. thanks for the numbers, I'll rework it when I have time Smile

~Dag
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Dragoonseal



Joined: 11 Sep 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:26 pm    Post subject:
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I can't vote on this one, because you can only choose one of the options. I pick both 'Too high!' and 'Too low!", but if I had to pick, it would be 'Too low!"

Jaddan.. ya.. Jaddan, that just sums up my point right there. A cost of 1 to train up a stat? With the starting stat training points alone you can have 30 strength and 20 vitality, with training points to spare, and as soon as you hit level 2 you could have 40 strength and 28 vitality.

Even the next closest stat modifier of -2 costs four times as much at the start.

Stat costs not increasing for a long time at lower ranks adds to the problem.
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Kelasa



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:49 pm    Post subject:
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but then you look at that with their high stats... and it balances out, so if trev lowered the bonuses/negatives it would lower the high cost stats but increase the way low cost ones.
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Brokyn
LLAMA SECHS


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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:05 pm    Post subject:
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It really doesn't balance out, at least right now. You could make a Jaddan Merc or Trooper, who doesn't need mentality or intellect all that much in the beginning (agility and coordination aren't showing all that much of a benefit, at least for me, at this point, though I'm sure that'll change soon), and just beef him up strength and vitality until you're blue in the face.

Hell. Make a Jaddan Guardian and you've got a nearly unstoppable juggernaut once they get some unarmed training in. Confused +20% resistance to damage types and the layers upon layers of HP and Stamina.

--William
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HR-Trevor
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Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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 Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:22 pm    Post subject:
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What I'm considering... and mind you I've not done the full math on this so it's just a thought right now... is something like this:

Human, all stats @ 10, always.

Alteri:
AGI: 9; CHA: 10; COO: 8; INT: 9; MEN 9; PER 9; STR 13; VIT 13.

Darju:
AGI: 9; CHA: 12; COO: 10; INT: 10; MEN: 11; PER: 10; STR: 9; VIT: 9

Eolai:
AGI: 8; CHA: 8; COO: 9; INT: 10; MEN: 12; PER: 10; STR: 11; VIT: 12

Jaddan:
AGI: 12; CHA: 9; COO: 12; INT: 11; MEN: 11; PER: 11; STR: 7; VIT: 7

These costs would not rise as the stat is trained higher, so raising Jaddan strength from 1 to 2 is 7 points as is from 129 to 130 also 7 points.
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Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:04 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
Jaddan.. ya.. Jaddan, that just sums up my point right there. A cost of 1 to train up a stat?


It gets a lot harder real fast..

Quote:
Hell. Make a Jaddan Guardian and you've got a nearly unstoppable juggernaut once they get some unarmed training in. +20% resistance to damage types and the layers upon layers of HP and Stamina.


Yeah, I'm taking down borkins aplenty.. I like what I do, but I'm trying to be objective about this Smile

Here's what I have so far:

Quote:

Information for Dag Choda, Level 3 Jaddan Guardian

Agility : 6 Age : 320 seasons
Charisma : 10 (12) Race : Jaddan
Coordination : 6 Gender : Male
Intellect : 3 Height : 8'10"
Mentality : 4 Weight : 501 lbs.
Perception : 3
Strength : 35
Vitality : 40

Acrobatics : 9 Research : 7
Evasion : 9 Security : 6
First Aid : 6 Spell Casting : 6
Intimidation : 9 Spell Research : 9
Occult Lore : 8 Stealth : 6
Parry : 3 Tactics : 9
Persuasion : 9 Unarmed Combat : 9
Psionic Ability : 6

You have learned the following Alteration spells:
Blood Siphon.

You have learned the following Perception abilities:
Precognition.


I'm focused, I'm determined, but you know what? I'm only good for one thing.. being a hardass. I drool over the skills I see some of these people have... pottery, skinning, crafting, magic, tracking, medics, etc, etc... I take pride in what I can do, I do my job and I do it well.. but when it comes to anything but defending my world, all I can do is sit back and admire your success Cool

~Dag
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Dragoonseal



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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:21 am    Post subject:
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It gets a lot harder real fast..

No it doesn't, and thats part of the problem. It only cost 1 up until 20, and it only increases by 1 at that point. Then it stays at 2 until.. something like 28, and then only increases by 1 about every 5 ranks for a few times, and then eventually starts to increase by 1 every 2-3 once it gets pretty high.

It stays incredibly cheap for a long time.
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HR-Draxx



Joined: 04 Dec 2002
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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:56 am    Post subject:
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The thing is, if Jaddan troopers ignore the mental stats in favor of incredibly outrageous strength and vitality, they will be eaten alive anytime that someone uses magic or psionics against them, since those effect your ability to resist such things.
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Dragoonseal



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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:59 am    Post subject:
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They don't have to ignore them for long, they can get incredible strength and stamina by a low level, and then work on other things afterwards.
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Velcroman



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 82

 Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:06 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
It stays incredibly cheap for a long time.


It stays incredibly cheap if you like being a block of mud.

By 40 it's already up to 4 per and rising fast, and yeah, that's low compared to a just about everything, but it's no walk in the park when you consider that everything but charisma costs at least 13 just to start.

Sure, I've got strength and vitality (and a sexy smile).. that's about all I'm ever gonna have unless I take several levels to train something else.

I don't entirely dislike Trev's numbers though, a little harder to reach juggernaut potential, a little more thought required at each level, still the baddest mothers in the valley...

Confucious say: Gull who pick up fortune cookie smash it on rock like snail.

~Dag
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