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Don't Scrap the 'crats.
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The Official Haelrahv Message Forum Forum Index » Bureaucrats » Don't Scrap the 'crats.
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Tugor
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Don't Scrap the 'crats.
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Ralenth wrote:
PS - I really think renaming a bureaucrat and fleshing out the profession is a better choice than nixing it altogether.


I agree with that. There are so many options to branch out on instead of just scrapping the whole profession. This thread is dedicated to ideas and suggestions on improving this 'type' of profession. I know killing the profession isn't set in stone, that's why I'm making this thread.

'Bureaucrat' might not be a suitable name anymore but I believe that a profession dedicated to entrepreneurism in general would appeal to many and provide an option to those who are interested in that aspect of RP/gaming.
--------------------------
From here on I will use the general term 'merchant' to describe this profession.

- Merchants would be able to choose to specialize in certain areas like entrepreneurism(trading commodities), law(arguing cases), buisness management(owning your own shop) etc.

- Once there are other cities merchants could get something akin to trade contracts. Low level merchants would need to hire cheap transportation for their goods and have to travel with them, maybe even hiring caravan guards or something to keep them safe. High level merchants could afford much more sophisticated transportation: trucks, air ships etc. Each type of 'vehicle' would have a storage capacity which would work towards minimizing\maximizing profit.

- The whole lawyer thing sits nice right now, I don't like the idea of anyone being able to become an awesome litigator in addition to their chosen profession.

- Owning shops would be really neat too.

- Give everyone the ability to broker in bulk.

- Take away interest on bank accounts for 'crats or have the bank offer different types of bank accounts akin to RL with different\no interest rates.

Those are just a few ideas, I'll post more as I think of them.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Don't Scrap the 'crats.
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If anything, being a lawyer and a merchant just don't go together. You should be a lawyer/politician OR a merchant. So, while I like crats, I think the whole merchant part of who they are should be dismantled. No more bonused bank accounts. No more brokering. No more pluses for being able to sell things. Just straight up Bureaucrat.
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HR-Trevor
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:20 am    Post subject:
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While there are other reasons I back the idea of making politics a layer rather than a profession, one of my largest concerns with bureaucrats right now is the fact that they have absolutely no need for virtually every stat except charisma - especially physical stats.

If any suggestions that would be most helpful, situations where bureaucrats would actually need and want those stats definitely fall into that category.
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Tugor
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:06 am    Post subject:
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HR-Trevor wrote:
If any suggestions that would be most helpful, situations where bureaucrats would actually need and want those stats definitely fall into that category.


I think one remedy could be to work in mentality and intelligence more strongly and have them influence a Bureaucrats abilities/skills to a greater degree.

Change the brokering formula to include those stats.

Mentality could also greatly influence the number of cases a 'crat can have researched to 100% before they must be argued.

Weird idea heh. . .have vitality slightly influence the amount of cases a 'crat can do before needing to take a break. Perhaps it would take mentality and vitality. Afterall, you are standing in a courtroom for hours and hours. If the 'crat becomes fatigued they will either be unable to continue or suffer stat/skill penalties until they rest.
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Fallon



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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject:
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I'm not sure what this would take or if it's even something that people would like, but if you are trying to add more stats into Crat's I think it would have to be done by giving them more skills to learn. Bare with me because I haven't had much coffee, but here it goes..

If you take the idea of Merchants and give them a couple skills like stocking, cashiering, ordering (or just keep it as one basic skill Merchant) then I could see adding such stats as strength, agility, coordination and perception to their repertoire. It would also flesh them out as a profession.

If you take brokering and view it more as a haggling kind of thing I could see coordination and perception adding to the skill.

I'm sure politician or lawyer could be seen slightly different too, and since you like the idea of anyone being able to do politics why not have a skill for it and give Crat's a bonus like Artisans and crafting, or Techs with gadgets. Others could do some of it, but only trained professionals can do certain things.

Especially with the justice system coming out I think it would be cool to keep Crat's in the game. Anyway just a couple of thoughts!
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject:
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Fallon wrote:
Especially with the justice system coming out I think it would be cool to keep Crat's in the game. Anyway just a couple of thoughts!



Yes, exactly. There will be a need for bureaucrats. But it still mystifies me as to why lawyers and officials should broker. I understand that there's the 'can argue real well' but being a lawyer and buisness savy are two totally different things. While I would like to see bureaucrats stay in game, I think their merchanting skills should be taken away. Just have Terevo or a clerk at the market broker for everyone the same exact way.

Why?

Because with $5000 worth of commodities brokered, I can lock my crat. Two seconds, mind full. Those llichini slabs also lock my crat right away. That's entirely unfair. Unless brokering stops moving the exp meter so much. I don't think brokering a backpack full should insta-lock. The crat isn't in any danger and isn't doing any work at all.

Now, reasons for crats to use physical skills:

* Self-defense against people that could try and jump them after trials.
* They will actually be a somewhat need to hunt because brokering won't fill up their minds anymore, and the best way to fill up your mind is suppose to be to hunt.
* Coordination and agility could be needed when arguing cases. It would be incorporated into intimidation. Strength could help here too.
* Mentality. Trying cases uses up focus.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
Because with $5000 worth of commodities brokered, I can lock my crat. Two seconds, mind full. Those llichini slabs also lock my crat right away. That's entirely unfair. Unless brokering stops moving the exp meter so much. I don't think brokering a backpack full should insta-lock. The crat isn't in any danger and isn't doing any work at all.


you do realize your crat does no work at all because you have kit do all the work for him/her/it, right? most crats don't have someone just drop off some slabs to sell so they can stay locked.
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
Kit wrote:
Because with $5000 worth of commodities brokered, I can lock my crat. Two seconds, mind full. Those llichini slabs also lock my crat right away. That's entirely unfair. Unless brokering stops moving the exp meter so much. I don't think brokering a backpack full should insta-lock. The crat isn't in any danger and isn't doing any work at all.


you do realize your crat does no work at all because you have kit do all the work for him/her/it, right? most crats don't have someone just drop off some slabs to sell so they can stay locked.



I DO think most crats are secondary characters, actually. All the big crats are.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject:
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Kit wrote:
I DO think most crats are secondary characters, actually. All the big crats are.


oh, i know, but i also know that it's still silly to regard a profession's ability to gain exp on how fast secondary accounts gain exp with primary accounts helping them. all that does is discourage more people from playing them as primary.
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
Kit wrote:
I DO think most crats are secondary characters, actually. All the big crats are.


oh, i know, but i also know that it's still silly to regard a profession's ability to gain exp on how fast secondary accounts gain exp with primary accounts helping them. all that does is discourage more people from playing them as primary.


There's no reason at all for a crat to be so easily about to lock their mind. That's my own opinion though. Do I abuse the fact that they can? Surely. It's not easy to manage any other character's mind pool...but my crat? Insta lock! Very useful for when I plan to be gone from the keyboard for a few hours.
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soundless
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject:
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except someone playing a crat as a primary isn't going to always have someone show up, give them a backpack of slabs, and go about their merry way.

pools lock fast when brokering because it is assumed that someone who brokers as a primary way of gaining exp isn't going to always have a steady stream of customers. because that stream isn't present, then the exp gain has to be larger than normal or else brokering fails as a primary way for a 'crat to gain experience.
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Kit
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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:05 pm    Post subject:
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soundless wrote:
except someone playing a crat as a primary isn't going to always have someone show up, give them a backpack of slabs, and go about their merry way.

pools lock fast when brokering because it is assumed that someone who brokers as a primary way of gaining exp isn't going to always have a steady stream of customers. because that stream isn't present, then the exp gain has to be larger than normal or else brokering fails as a primary way for a 'crat to gain experience.



I like to see any other profession's main system teach them as much. It's unrealistic. And with the way people always want brokers around here, they get quite a lot of work. Mine isn't even used half the time for Kit. Everyone else needs broekrs too!
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