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senseandviolets
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 358
Location: Land of the lizards.
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 Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: Woodworking Cont. from Armor Crafting |
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| I'm not sure why this is under armor making |
Sorry to have gone off topic there but one of the early posts had two parts which the woodworking topic sprung from.
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| did you ever try sanding it to try again? |
Yes, I could have sanded it and tried again.. but I was already one hour down, I wasn't about to spend another hour just to get back to that point. That would be silly when I could make twice the money/exp tailoring and hunting... ie doing the same old thing.
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| I sure wouldn't buy an artistic piece where the artist obviously screwed up and decided to try to sell it anyway, I'd actually be annoyed with them for trying to pull a scam like that on me. |
No piece of crafted work is ever *perfect* and while you personally might not care to buy something that isn't, plenty of people would look past certain imperfections if the quality of the rest of the work meritied it. [See Liberty Bell, Tower of Pisa, Venus Di'Milo]. And while no artisans are currently making works of this stature, I hope you see my point. I actually own an interesting Ebony sculpture which I got for a steal because there's a gauge on the back side... so I just keep that side facing the wall.
Furthermore, I don't appreciate your implications that I wish to play my character as a scam artist, or that she isn't serious about her work. I love role playing my artisan, but I don't like feeling as if I'm limited to a few systems because they're the only ones that give decent returns.
I think marring should drastically lower the sell value by as much as 50% but, solely RP reasons aside I think having it completely negated unless one starts over is unfair to the player who has invested their time.
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| When you said it caps out for you at 15 words, are you concidering the length of those words? |
I have checked with smaller words, even using a word such as "is" I still got 3-4 minute rt's. It seemed to me that the rt's were based off of what word in the sequence you were on rather than the length, or atleast a combination of both.
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| Just sand it and start again. |
Or just not use it... apparantly no one cares. 
_________________
Behind every optic is a mathematic. |
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HR-Hunter
Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 564
Location: [Deep Wilderness Shrine, Haelrahv]
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| No piece of crafted work is ever *perfect* and while you personally might not care to buy something that isn't, plenty of people would look past certain imperfections if the quality of the rest of the work meritied it. [See Liberty Bell, Tower of Pisa, Venus Di'Milo]. And while no artisans are currently making works of this stature, I hope you see my point. I actually own an interesting Ebony sculpture which I got for a steal because there's a gauge on the back side... so I just keep that side facing the wall. |
I understand the concept of something handmade not being perfect, but there's a difference between handmade items with no two will be alike with minor blemishes and imperfection are to be expected, and gouging something badly and ruining the thing you were trying to carve in. Most craftsmen have a large reject pile for those items that don't make the cut.
Venus Di'Milo wasn't broken when it was made, it was time that did that, not a slacker sculpter saying "oops, there went an arm, guess I'll just knock the other one off too." The liberty bell would be concidered a piece of crap if it wasn't for it's historical significance, and the leaning tower of Piza is an architectural landmark, not an individual piece of artistry and doesn't really apply as an example.
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| Furthermore, I don't appreciate your implications that I wish to play my character as a scam artist, or that she isn't serious about her work. I love role playing my artisan, but I don't like feeling as if I'm limited to a few systems because they're the only ones that give decent returns. |
I wasn't trying to imply your character is a con artist. I was talking about a RL example. In this text format there's some room for interpretation so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you are picturing the flaws as smaller then they were intended to be, if you saw the gouged up item in RL I don't think you'd be so quick to concider it a minor flaw.
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| I think marring should drastically lower the sell value by as much as 50% but, solely RP reasons aside I think having it completely negated unless one starts over is unfair to the player who has invested their time. |
Concidering that originally when you mess up in detailing it was going to break the item, I think making it so you can start over is not only fair, it's generous.
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| I have checked with smaller words, even using a word such as "is" I still got 3-4 minute rt's. It seemed to me that the rt's were based off of what word in the sequence you were on rather than the length, or atleast a combination of both. |
Uh, what?
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detail ring with is
Your carving knife looks a bit dull.
You pull a carving knife out of your toolkit and carefully carve your ring, concentrating intently on your work.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
detail ring with is
You pull a carving knife out of your toolkit and carefully carve your ring, concentrating intently on your work.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
detail ring with is
You pull a carving knife out of your toolkit and carefully carve your ring, concentrating intently on your work.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
l ring
is is is
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| Or just not use it... apparantly no one cares. |
That's your choice, nobody is going to force you to use it.
_________________
~Hunter~ |
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soundless
EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 5970
Location: Spaceship
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Woodworking Cont. from Armor Crafting |
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| senseandviolets wrote: |
| No piece of crafted work is ever *perfect* and while you personally might not care to buy something that isn't, plenty of people would look past certain imperfections if the quality of the rest of the work meritied it. [See Liberty Bell, Tower of Pisa, Venus Di'Milo]. And while no artisans are currently making works of this stature, I hope you see my point. I actually own an interesting Ebony sculpture which I got for a steal because there's a gauge on the back side... so I just keep that side facing the wall. |
So you're saying that your Artisan is making things at the same level as historical landmarks? You're making statuettes out of wood, not a tower a few stories tall.
And you got that sculpture at a cheap price because it was messed up. It was SOLD to you at a cheap price due to it. Now, why would the pawn shop or the woodworker buy something broken to sell to someone ELSE when it has nothing special of note that would make it worth selling as opposed to the 243623632 other statuettes that can be bought and sold.
Stop acting like the GMs are implying horrible things about your character. What you are saying is the same as going, "Well, I can't hit that aerok, but I sure did take a lot of time shooting at it. How about I get the feather, anyway?" |
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senseandviolets
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 358
Location: Land of the lizards.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| if you saw the gouged up item in RL I don't think you'd be so quick to concider it a minor flaw. |
Fair enough. But is it guaranteed that every flaw would be so severe? I apologize for my tone in my last post, but I had felt that my concerns were being taken with a mocking attitude, and I feel I bring up a valid issue. I suspect that not too many people have played around the detailing system, and if more people with a fair chunk of craftsmanship tried their hand on it, I feel they would agree with me. Really I'd be more comfortable with the item just breaking... it only takes a few seconds to carve a new one, the little time I save my sanding is negligable compared to the long time it actually takes to detail.
You only carried your trial out to three.. I'm taking issue with the rt's around the 15th or so word mark.
From my obsrervations each additonal "is" ups the rt about four seconds. Lemme show you:
"Is" 1: 3
2: 4
3: 8
4: 12
5: 16
6: 20
7: 24
8: 28
nine: 31
10: 35
11: thirty-nine
Now keeping in mind that the average word is about 6 letters long, and as I have said my rt's were more around the order of 3-4 minutes after the 10th-15th word, isn't this a bit extreme. I really like what the wood working system has to offer, I appreciate the time and effort you must have put into developing it, but I feel that there have been unforeseen oversights which make the system less practical for the players to use than could otherwise be while still maintaining a balance.
I'm respectfully asking that you take these things into concideration, the system simply does not offer the type of returns that one can get from tailoring, potion making, or hunting. Maybe it's your intent that it should not be, and while I'll admit that I think that to be, "too bad," because I'd like to have more systems to play with, I'll shut my whine-hole. ;]
Part 2 Re: Soundless
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| So you're saying that your Artisan is making things at the same level as historical landmarks? You're making statuettes out of wood, not a tower a few stories tall. |
*clears her throat*
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| And while no artisans are currently making works of this stature |
Please do not respond to my posts in such a desparaging maner, especially when you have not read them completly. This is supposed to be a constructive forum.  [/quote]
_________________
Behind every optic is a mathematic. |
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Sorkaa
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 448
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmm..I realize that this discussion is geared towards the cash aspect of the system, and also the fact that it's impossible to mess up without completely ruining a piece. This doesn't really affect me, since I have no problem using other systems for cash. But I have played around with this, and I just wanted to throw in..I think the RTs are a small price to pay for what basically amounts to altering your own item. |
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HR-Mickey
Cloverfield Monster
Joined: 24 Nov 2002
Posts: 1844
Location: I've Got No 'billy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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For instance, we could all rattle Hunter for metal armorcrafting!
_________________
Mickey Brunner
To make a long story short, don't tell it.
I may be going nowhere, but I'm going nowhere fast.
---
Kelvin Watt says, "I stopped drinking coke when no longer drinking beer didn't make my gut disappear."
---
Kaelin Rae says, "Wait a minute..."
Kaelin Rae says, "You mean they have a COKE machine that dispenses beer."
Kaelin Rae nods to you.
Kaelin Rae says, "Greaser."
Kaelin Rae looks at you and sighs. |
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HR-Valla
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 176
Location: Siren Cove
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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*Rattles Hunter* (Then runs away very very quickly) 
Valla |
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